Yohji Yamamoto And Tim Blanks In Conversation

TITLE: In conversation: Yohji Yamamoto & Tim Blanks | System CHANNEL: System DATE: 2025-09-10 ---TRANSCRIPT--- [Music] [Music] Paris is such an important city for people,   for designers. What is  your relationship with Paris now? My first trouble for another country, the first  was Russia and then northern part of Europe and   then I came down through Germany, to Paris. I  don’t remember which the the it was, Gare du Nord,   or Gare de l’Est. I don’t remember. But, anyway,  the first moment I get out from the train, I got   smell of a gitane, and I heard the very high tone  talking of people, like like fighting each other.  It was noisy noisy and smelly,  and I felt ‘Oh this is my town’.  It it was a it was like a fate. Yeah. I like this city from from one second   when I get out of train. I started love this city. So, when you come here do you have a routine?  What do you mean by routine? Do you have, when you come here,   are there certain things that you love to  do, that you sort of settle yourself in? Oh yeah. Yeah. Since when I arrived  16 years ago I started smoking.  Oh, that’s not good. It’s good. No,  it’s not good. Smoking? I’m still alive.  So Paris made you smoke? In Paris? Yes. In United States? It is like a joke. Forbidden  to smoke. Welcome to Malboro country. There are things you’ve said over the  years that really stay with me.   One thing that I think is more relevant than  ever is that you once said you had to be   angry to be a fashion designer. Do  you still believe that? Uh, yeah. Do you need a reason? Mhm. I need a reason. Since I was very young, very tiny, four  or five years old, in the kindergarten,   I became very close to one girl, one girl,   tiny little girl. I’m always taking care of  girl helping, her situation. I don’t know why. And it is still continue until now.  I was helping young girl. Tiny girl.  And I was standing on the women’s side,  girl side from when I was 5 years old. This is maybe because I don’t know nothing  about my father. He was brought at the 1950 the   year of the end of the second world war. He was  picked up to the wall, and the final vocabulary   he gave to my mother ‘Because I was given the  summer wear summer uniform. Maybe I’ll be sent   to the south’. That is his final vocabulary.  I strongly remember and gradually I take … like five or six years old, I started  becoming angry about the Japanese army. You think looking after that 5-year-old girl.  Yeah. was your was the beginning of your   destiny in a way? Yeah. Yes. And I didn’t  know, at that moment, I didn’t know why. And finally last year I arrived 80 years.   Last October, I arrived 80  years and I looked back myself. Oh it was destiny. And you don’t know   who gave you the destiny? You did. It was my fate. You did. Huh? You   make your fate. Don’t you think? Do  you think you make your own fate?  I don’t know. I even didn’t want to  become clothes maker, fashion designer. I really hated the vocabulary so-called  fashion. Fashion? too light. No?  I’m not fashion designer. What are you? Clothing maker. That’s it.  Otherwise, if I chose another method right now,   I’ll be dead or I’ll be in the  prison because I was hungry. Hungry, anti- men, adult. Yeah. They made so  many wars, so many fight, so many bombs. The women were not like that. So, why fashion design then? I mean,   you said you would be dead or in prison.  You could have been a musician.   A lot of angry people make wonderful music. You’re right. I had only three choices.   I wanted to be musician. I wanted to be  painter. I wanted to be clothing maker. Half. So do you think you got trapped?  Huh? What trapped you? My fate. I believe that. I believe that. I do. Oh,  yeah. I do believe that. I’m glad you do.  I do think that you do present  so many ideas through clothes.  When you say, you talk about you could  have been a painter. You paint with your   clothes. You could have been a musician.  You make music with your clothes.   You’ve made clothes into your vehicle for  all the things you love in your life.  Is that a good thing? You  must be happy about that.  It’s nice to making it all  together, four times a year. And now you’ve turned 80. Yeah.  How different is it doing that? Oh, I’m always asking to myself,  should I stop or should I continue?  Who can decide it? I’m asking to the heaven. Do you still love it? Oh, love. The vocabulary so-called  love is not the very right for me.  I was pushed to be like that.  Only last choice because my   mother used to be a clothes maker for the  neighborhood, and I followed her naturally. So, what would young Yohji think of Yohji now? Maybe no difference. I’m still young mentally. But you make music now. You make music now. Uh, not really. I have a friend of mine,   professional musician. I tell to them my idea,  my basic feeling. Then they create music for me.  Does that make you feel free or more free?  It’s the most happiest moment when  we make music together, in my life. Making clothing is a suffer. Because it’s the third thing  that you… Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. But it’s been your whole life. Finally. You’re not frustrated though,  are you? Always frustrated. I can be somebody else, then a fashion designer. So when I brought my first outfit to Paris. at  the first time, 80% of journalists they hated it,   hated me and 20% they approached me. It was nice. Because it’s good to be a rebel. It comes from misunderstanding. This to me is misunderstanding. Do that,   I’m showing my mind misunderstand me.  Misunderstand? Misunderstand. You,   but you are loved. Am I? You are loved.  Am I? You are respected, you are revered.  I don’t think so. You don’t think so? I don’t think so, just misunderstanding. Do you like that kind of difficulty  though? Do you kind of relish, you know,   you enjoy that sort of difficult position? You don’t like things to be easy for you? No. Do you think that, do you believe in wisdom?  That as you get older you you accumulate wisdom?  I’m not believe in wisdom,   but we need wisdom. We need your wisdom.  As far as you get old, you need wisdom. Don’t you think so? Yeah. Yeah. It’s how  we survive. It’s how we know what’s good,   what’s bad, what survive. Survival is given by chance, faith. It’s a present. Who gives that? Who gives that? Who gives  that present? Who gives that present?   Who decides whether we live or not? Maybe when I was young, I thought   maybe my lost father, he gave me. Sometimes  when I feel I got something very lucky   ‘Oh, father gave me’. ‘Oh, father gave  me’. It’s very strange feeling. That’s sort of like a fairy tale a little bit.  Fairy tale. Yes. I’m living in fairy tale. That explains a lot. A lot. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. When you look at the world… Yeah. What are  you feeling now? How crazy, terrible, dangerous. No end. They’re killing each other.  Human being is naturally dangerous.   When the world is like this, what  is the point of making clothes? I’m just doing it for surviving. That’s it.  I cannot change the world. I  cannot change the people’s mind. If I can something, change or do,   if I can do something I can change  a little bit of the value of beauty In the old time something so-called  dirty agree, they are beautiful for me,   different side of looking at. You have to be free to look at something. It’s very true. Yeah. You  have to break people’s cages.  Exactly. Exactly. And you can do that with fashion.   You can challenge people’s preconceptions. I  mean with clothes. A little bit, a little bit. Do you think you’ve done that? When you say  you came to Paris and 80% of people didn’t   understand what you were doing but 20% did? That  was nice. So you changed things for 20% of people. I didn’t count in that way. I was thinking, still now, I was thinking  that if the small part of population people   can understand me, it’s okay. That’s nice,  wonderful. Because I can eat, keep on eating,   keep on make my family eating. That’s it. Thanks a lot.   So you’re like a father who wants to care for his   family. You do a job to make sure that  your family has food on the table. Yes.  Very humble. Humble? Oh yes. Maybe I’m  humble. Maybe. I don’t know. You know   yourself deeply? Do you know? People don’t know  about himself. You’ll always surprise yourself.  Do you surprise yourself?  Sometimes. How? Oh, I’m lucky.  I tell myself I am lucky. Just lucky.  But you have you have to have power to   be lucky. You have to catch it, the idea. You  have the talent or sense to catch it of luck.  Don’t you think so? You have to be able to judge the moment.  It’s terrible. Terrible to judge something.  There is many way of understanding. Don’t you think so? For everything. Yeah. Yeah. But so why do we get trapped  in only one way of understanding things?  Oh, I don’t know. Some famous journalists  made it. Some British made it. Some strong   person made it. ‘Strong’ in  the in the meaning of society. You think people would rather follow  than lead? I’m sorry. I feel sorry. Do you think of yourself as a leader? No, never.  I’m patient with the society.  People can do anything. But we have to know the limit. Limit is my  favorite vocabulary. You have to know limit. Is that your motto? Yeah. ‘You have  to know your limits’. Yeah. Yeah.  So, you know your limits? Yeah. Otherwise, otherwise I’ll be in prison already.  It’s interesting though. Do you think  fate defines your limits in any way?   Fate. Fate defines your limits? Fate saved  you otherwise you would be in prison. Oh dear.  Did you say I was lucky? So luck and fate  these are big questions. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.   Yeah. Do you think you were lucky? Yeah.  But same time I made a big effort. Probably,   probably it was enough or not? I don’t know. Do you think you were original? Do you think  you did things first? No. Happened to be   like that. I created something which people  don’t like at the beginning. Like Van Gogh,   like Van Gogh. Yeah. Like Braque or like  Picasso. People didn’t like Picasso.   Oh, when I think about Van  Gogh my heart becomes painful, but this is the life. How much you try people don’t  accept it. Happens very often.  Is there anything you haven’t  done that you want to do? I’ve done almost 80% of my of my favorite things. So, uh, I’m ready to go, already. I’m ready to go.  You’re ready to go. Mentally. Ready to disappear. You mean leave? Yeah. And where do you go when you leave? I don’t know. Probably my my  my father’s place or my mother’s place.  My mother went two years ago. She’s waiting me.  My mother went last year. Last year? Yeah. How old was your mother? 112. She was so strong until she get sick around 110.  She enjoyed so many things. She enjoyed buying,   uh kind of kind of beautiful… Anyway, she enjoyed buying many things and she  was enjoying to pay because she could have money,   after my retail company became successful.  She became rich. So she spent joyfully,   spent money. I was watching her from back  of her. Oh, she’s enjoying everything. I was lucky. When you look at her,   would you like to live to 114? Would you? No. No. No. No. No way. No. Would you describe yourself as optimistic? No. No. If I become too optimistic, I couldn’t t be  able to be a creator or fashion designer. You know when you did your wedding shows?  Yeah. They were not optimistic? No.  There was a time when I had no  imagination about new outfits.   So I went, I jumped to the wedding dress,  only wedding dress. Then American fashion   press and buyers they invited me  to New York to make a big party. I was surprised. But I was curious about that.  I remember at the time because I always thought   white was the color of death in Japan. What? I  thought white was the color of death in Japan.   Oh. And I thought how funny that’s… No,  it’s not. I always understood that. So I   thought whether looked like a black is  always like that. Black is always dead.  You said black was an arrogant  color. No. Do you remember?  Black is… I said so? You said that. I’m  sorry. It You said it was humble and arrogant   or something. Humble and arrogant. Yeah. When I was young, I shouted in the way,   but black is, for Japanese, people is they  only war black color when somebody dead.   It’s a funeral color everywhere.  Yeah. Everywhere. Yeah. Yeah.   But black is your signature. You  mean life is a constant funeral? This is just a joke. You said you were ready to  leave. Um, are you spiritual? I’m double. I’m double. Now, I have  my children and my grandchildren.   I want to let them become happy.  For that I have to keep on working Or my son or my eldest daughter take my  place, and continue my company.   This is my dream. But but maybe my company staff don’t  accept that, really like a dynasty. A dynasty. Thank you, Yohji. Thank you. A lot to think about. Yeah. Yeah.  We’ll talk some more in Japan. Huh? We’ll talk  some more in Tokyo. We’ll see. Oh, yeah. Yeah.   Yeah. We’ll do karaoke, apparently. Okay, let’s  go. What’s your song? What’s your karaoke song?   I have so many types of favorite songs. So I  sing a new song, old song, song is American,   English songs and French songs, Japanese songs. I  can’t sing Chinese songs because of the language.   Do you sing Bob Dylan? A lot. I love him.  Do you sing Desolation Row? Yeah. It’s my  favorite. Yeah. I don’t sing Desolation   Row when I do karaoke. No. No. It’s too  long. No. It depends on karaoke shop.  Do you go to movies? When I was  young, I kept watching so many movies. When I was very small, like five or six years  old, I was living with my mother in Shinjuku,   very downtown. So very close to my mother’s  shop, I had many theatres for movie. So I   went to look at cowboy movies once a week. And  the first moment, first time. I liked cowboys,   but gradually I started hating them  because they killed too too many Indians. Yeah. We identify with the  Indians. Yeah. Always. Yeah.  Thank you. Thank you. [Music] [Music]