Wro 76 Hangin Out With Mark Minervini Part 2

TITLE: WRO #76 Hangin’ Out with Mark Minervini (Part 2) CHANNEL: Mike Webster DATE: 2026-06-20 ---TRANSCRIPT--- Before we get into the episode, I just wanted to kind of let you know what happened. So, we recorded for a long time, about two and a half hours, and and towards the end, Mark said, “Hey, you should break this up into two separate ones.” So, a part one and a part two. So, that’s what we’ve done here. Um, it went extremely well. And as it turned out, uh once we I turned off the recorder, we kept talking for another couple hours. I guess I should have turned it back on, but it was a great conversation. I think you’re going to really enjoy both of these. So, we’re going to break this up over two separate Webbby rambles on. So, sit back, enjoy it. I think you’re really going to dig both episodes. So, thanks for watching. Well, howdy, folks. It’s Mike again, and you are in for a wild ride. This is going to be a blast with my buddy Mark. Welcome to Webby Rambles on. Mark, how you doing?

I’m doing great. How are you? Oh, what what advice would you give to them that we kind of get them to the next level? Well, first of all, there’s, you know, we went from having no information to information overload. And that’s the problem. I think the problem is like there’s a lot of temptation in the world in the market you know the social media and everything being everything’s so available that there’s just constant temptation and we’ve gone to where our our attention span is like you know 3 seconds so yeah and and with we’re used to a lot of dop you know all this dopamine hits and stuff. So uh that’s the thing we have to guard against about you know there people they’re changing their strategy looking for the hot you know thing and there’s discipline and persistence and the the the the things that make that are the cornerstones of greatness are you know getting passed over and then you’re wondering why you’re not doing well at something when because you tried 27 different things and you’ve never really put in the time to be good at any one thing. So the first thing is you got to, you know, you got to be looking in the right direction. My first rule is Willie Sutton and the bank robber. They said, “Why’d you why’d you rob the bank?” He said, “Because that’s where the money is, you know.” So, so you know, you got to go in the direction, you know, if you’re going east looking for a sunset, you’re not going to find it, right? So, you got to be going in the right direction. The way I did that was I went and found people that were super successful and and said, “Okay, if they did this, they don’t really have, you know, a guy who’s a billionaire, a guy like me who’s had this success, and I have no reason to lie to you. You know, there’s really there’s no reason for me to to to to tell you tales. you know, you’re you’re getting uh 43 years of of of experience, you know, and and and the truth because I you know, one of the thing about getting being wealthy is it gives you the, you know, the it gives you integrity. G it gives you um you know, you don’t have to do anything. I have the luxury of having integrity. Let’s just put it that way. I often say I have the luxury of having integrity. I can do the right thing. I don’t need the money, so I don’t put out a book real quick. I make sure it’s really great and I got all great information in there. you know, when you don’t do things for money, the funny thing is you you make money. You do something really great and you make the money. So, yeah. So, so I would say, you know, don’t the the probably the biggest thing that I did was I said, you know what? I’m going to just forget about the money. The money, I’m not even going to be consider the money or think about the money. I’m just going to focus on being really great at this. And then I’m going to look at my mistakes and I’m going to work on the worst things I do. The things that are the biggest mistakes I’m going to work on first and bring those up to where they’re better until they become a strength. I wanted to make my my So my one of my biggest weaknesses was I was holding stocks and let and I was blowing up. Well, now 43 years later, that’s what I’m known for. I’m known for my discipline. I’m known for my lack of draw down and my my risk control because I took what was the worst and I made it the best and and and I did that with every one of those, you know, of those faults instead of and and those things I did well. I said, let me figure out how I can optimize these and make these as as strong as possible. And yeah, that’s it. You know, just bringing focusing on you got to you got to get that feedback. The feedback is really I think you know one of the things that I I naturally do is I love quantifying things. So the whole idea with Bill of saying you know look at your past trades and was to me that made a lot of sense and then I started quantifying it. I I used to actually and we have we have on our platform now we have a software that you actually can grade your trades and you get a report card. It’s pretty cool. Right. So, I used to do that myself. Like I would go and I would I’d make categories and say, “Okay, sold too soon, bought late, uh, didn’t cut loss, you know, held the loss, and then I would grade the trades.” At the end of the year, I would build this model book, and I grade all my trades, and then I would look at the percentage and say, “Oh, god, look at that. That’s a high percentage that I keep doing.” And then I would find like where my common traits were because every trader has certain things that they do because it’s a lot of emotion gets in there and starts influencing your behavior. So to find that I would quantify that and then see where you know and and percentages like you know for instance you know if you look at selling you’re selling at a profit you’re almost always going to like not sell perfect. So so that’s going to be a low. So that’s if you like were selling really great 50% of the time, that’s a big number. But then you got something that’s absolute like for instance your your loss. Like that’s a number you come up with before you or you should come up with before you even get into the trade. So that should be 100%. Like that should never ever so like 85% that may sound like a well 85% of the time I cut my loss. That’s no good. It should be 100%. So the the number is going to be different for different uh aspects of of the trading. And so you need to figure that out. And and the main thing is is learn from someone who’s already been there because you know I I I one time I I I tweeted I said you know I would never take advice from somebody who didn’t already accomplish what I was looking to accomplish. I said I don’t think anybody can tell you how to make $10 million if they haven’t made $10 million. Why don’t they do it for themselves? And somebody shot back at me and said, “Well, that’s that’s not really true because there’s great coaches that were not great basketball players and there’s coaches that were never a sports player and they coach.” I and my I shot back and said, “Yeah, well, I’m going to wait until they prove to me and they win a championship and and so [clears throat] and they’re a great coach.” So, and then if they’re such a great coach, then they’re going to win a championship and then they can coach me, you know? So, that’s the way I look at it. I look at it where I’m going to go out and find the people that are successful and emulate them. And you know, that’s what Bill did a lot. And and through the newspaper, he had his leaders and success page. And in fact, he had planned, most people don’t know about it because it never happened, but he planned on doing like an amusement park about leaders and success people. And that was going to be a big thing that he was going to do, but you know, he You want to hear a funny leaders and success story? Yeah. [laughter] This this is a kind of a funny story. It’s a real inside story about Bill O’Neal. Anyway, I was in Leaders in Success. Yeah. Yeah. Well, well, the thing why that’s uh to me is strange is because if you go back and you look at Leaders in Success, they were all people that were deceased. Uh up until modern times, maybe even post O’Neal, I’m not sure if it was after Bill passed, but uh Lauren Fleenstein used to write for Investor Business Daily. I don’t know if you if you know Lauren, but he’s an old school guy and uh was with uh investors business was in a meeting and and they were talking about how you know there’s a lot of people that are alive that are you know would be good for leaders and success and Bill said no no I want people that are you know are are have passed and you know these the legacy people and and I forget who it was but someone in the meeting said no no but Bill there’s and kind of pressed it and you know Bill you know [laughter] so Bill slammed on the table and he said, “Look, you start a newspaper, you put up the money and you and you pay for a newspaper and you can have live people. I want dead people.” Yeah. That that’s that’s so So yeah, so it was kind of a a rule that you know you had people that were deceased in leaders and success. So yeah. So, well, that was I guess they ran out of people when they asked me to No, I I think what what happened with what would happen with Bill would be he would that was how they told you that story is the way he talked, you know, and it was his world and we were just living in it and that’s fine, you know. We all knew we knew that. We knew that the name on the door wasn’t Mike Webster. It was it wasn’t anyone else. It was William O’Neal and Company. But what would happen is he would really be opposed to something and and just pound the table and no, no, no. And then given enough time, he’d switch around. It would kind of bounce around in his head. And then he would come up with the idea as if it was his own and everyone, you would just kind of have to go, “Yeah, we we all remember, but he didn’t remember it.” And that’s fine because I think that showed his flexibility. like he his initial response was these this is the way we’ve always done it. This is the way we’re going to do it. But then he would you and I would just learn how to plant a seed with him because I didn’t care who got the credit. It it was just like hey I think this we should do this thing. You plant a seed with Bill the right way and then six months from now he’d come back and it was his idea and that was that was fine with me. But the leaders in success that was so good. I I used to tear that out when I was in the research department in 97 through 99 before I was a PM for him. And I would tear that page out and I would I would put it up next to my computer. I’d also put the big picture page up there, the the general market and and just read it and then the 10 secrets to success and and and go over those and those were so important to him. And I believe all of those and anyone, you know, should should go and look at the just Google the IBD’s 10 secrets to success. They’re they’re really really good. And and the most important one is, you know, be honest and dependable. Yeah. Bill Bill had great fundamental fabric, you know. I mean, he was Yeah. A great person to be mentored by. And, you know, I’m a lot like Bill, too. you know, I I let you have it right between your eyes and blunt, you know, uh very abrasive and blunt sometimes, but that’s what I loved about Bill. You know, he was uh I saw him rip some people in some seminars and I’ve done it, too. And then afterwards, I feel bad, but I you know, sometimes you need to do that. And uh you know, we’re just being authentic and trying to be honest and sometimes honesty is is rough. Sometimes it’s tough tough to hear, you know, and so and sometimes if you put it real nicely, it doesn’t resonate as well. That’s probably one of my weaknesses because I’m a softy and I’m always I’m overly empathetic and so what’ll happen is I probably don’t get the message out, but Bill would just tell people like that’s a stupid question like and they would just spend eight grand, you know, like and and you know to see him and yeah, you would just tell them what I had somebody say that actually. We went to we did my seminar and somebody said I spent $5,000 for him to embarrass me in front of everybody and tell you know and to yell at me and I was like and I really I I actually remember the situation cuz I was told afterwards and I felt horrible you know but it really wasn’t it like when you get the spotlight put on you or you get singled out it feels like oh my god everybody nobody cares you know but it but it felt that way and it wasn’t nearly as bad as as as a person took it but it that’s the way they took it. So it was important to them. So yeah, I we I did apologize and you know and and but yeah, sometimes it it just goes that way. That would that would happen pretty much every seminar with Bill. There would be at least one person and it would and we’d all just like go, “Oh, you know.” Yeah. But that there was a guy I was at the Hilton in New York City. It was one of the modernday Bill O’Neal. I don’t know if you remember that. It was at the Grand Grand Grand Central Station. Oh yeah, I remember going there with him. Yeah, it was that was where he started to blow up and there was like a thousand 1500 people because when I first went there was like 17 people in the room, you know. Nobody. Yeah. For the first 10 years that I was following IBD and Bill O’Neal, like you know, if you asked a hundred stock traders or 100 stock brokers who Bill O’Neal or IBD was, you’d be lucky if one of them knew. Yeah. You know, but then later on, you know, it started to get he started to get more popularized and and IBD picked up. So, I went to that and somebody asked if you could turn the cup with handle upside down for a shorting pattern. And he said, “Well, not exactly.” And he he gave an answer and the person didn’t like the answer and pressed it and said, “No, but I think you could.” And and then he just he just nuked them. Oh, yeah. Well, when people would ask to buy at the bottom of the cup, my god, like hide under the desk because you knew what was going to be coming, man. He he he that’s another thing I learned from Bill Mike is that Bill did and I become so much this is like probably everything that I do is I always ask a question is it necessary like do do we need to do that you know do we need to buy at the low you know do I never bought at the low and I became rich so like it’s it’s not necessary so I think Bill like got really aggravated when you would you know a ask try to do things that just weren’t necessary. You know, you were over complicating it. You were breaking the rules. You were trying to circumvent, you know, the probabilities and, you know, trying trying to get cute. And um, you know, I often say how when the January effect first started, people used to say, well, the January effects, you know, happens in January, so they started buying in December and then people figured out that people would anticipate it, so they started buying in November, and eventually it came back to January. Yeah. It’s funny, you know, it’s just people always want to get in. Um, you know, the way I my assistant, uh, matter of fact, I think it was at that seminar. I met Darren Melier. I can’t remember, but I met my assistant Darren Mleier at a O’Neal seminar and he came up to me and he said, you know, I heard you and Bill talking. It sounded like you kind of knew what you’re talking about there. I was wondering if I could send you some charts and you take a look at them. And back then we used to fax. So I said, yeah, fax them over. So the next day my facts had like a hundred pages just all hanging off of it and it [laughter] was over like all these charts and I started looking at them and they all had relative strengths of I think they were all like around 80. So I said I’m curious you know you have like very consistently you have this like same relative strength number. He’s like yeah well you know Bill said 80 to 99 so well I want to get them before they become 99. So, I went at 80. And that really like speaks to like people’s mindset. They want to get in low. You know, you want to get in before the crowd. You want to buy that that Versace shirt on the bargain rack for 50 off. Yeah. I guess people are just w are just wired that way until you I think it’s just looking at enough charts that then once you once the light bulb goes on it’s like no like you said you don’t need to buy it down there there there are lower areas to buy than the handle of the cup with handle but not at the bottom of the base like maybe if someone can figure that out and prove it that’s one thing but I don’t I’ve never seen anyone be able to buy in the dirt what I just call in the dirt successfully. I always like to wait for, you know, the, you know, the same way you do it. You know, you you you’re waiting for things that make logical sense, uh, that you’ve seen a million times before. And most importantly, I think, to both of us, is you have a logical stop. Like, if you if you’re buying at the bottom, what is your stop? Like, you know, well, it could be below the below. I mean, I don’t really care, but the but my point is simply that look, if that works for you, fine. Whatever works, you know, if that’s your strategy, I don’t have the neither of us have the the, you know, the only strategy, right? So, there’s other people that do things and make money in other ways, great. But do that and like make 100% commitment to that and and learn all you can and be an expert. But the bottom line is, is it necessary? You know, I is it does it matter if you buy the stock at 20 at the bottom of the cup or if you buy it at 25 coming out of the handle if you make 25% each time. You know, maybe you buy it at the cup and then you sell it when it goes and goes up up against resistance at the old high and that’s a 20% move or you buy it breaking out into new highs and it goes up 20%. Like to me, does it really matter where I make that 20%. I want to make the 20% where I can do it fast, the fastest in the shortest period of time with the highest probability and with the most confidence of me knowing when things are working and when they’re not. You know, it’s that simple. I explain very simply my strategy and the way I I approach things is think about you wake up each day and you go and you take the train. You take the 605 train and every day you take it to work, right? And one day you get up and the train is not there. It’s 610. It’s 612. Is what do you like? What is the your the probability like can you ascertain anything from that? Nothing. Right. You not not really. It’s running a little late. Okay. But now let’s say at 6:30 at 6:45 it’s 7. It’s 7:30 at 7:45. 2 hours have gone by. The train isn’t there. the long now as it gets that far away from that 605 the chances that something’s really wrong have increased and your ability to have be accurate in that in that and ascertaining that is a much higher probability. The further it gets away from that, the more you know something’s wrong. Why? Why is that? Because you know it’s supposed to come in at 605. Mhm. If you didn’t know that it was supposed to come in 605, then it would be meaningless, right? This is what Bill said. Bill said, “You don’t need to know where the stock is going. You just need to know where it’s been.” And by doing that, you have a reference point and now you know what it’s supposed to do under those conditions. I just have a whole bunch of conditions that are created and under those conditions, I know certain things happen and I know when they’re good and when they’re bad and I just make adjustments based on that. So with but without those conditions, without all those qualifiers, well then what the stock what the stock’s doing doesn’t really mean much to me. All right? If you just look at one price bar just floating in the air wouldn’t mean a whole lot. But when that price bar is extended, it’s gone up a lot, it’s accelerated, it’s the largest update on the biggest volume, all of a sudden we can come up with some information that gives us some some probabistic uh uh you know uh ideas that we can work with and and and manage risk against. So again, it’s the reference points that that matter. So you don’t need know need to know where it’s going. You need to know where it’s been. And who cares? I’m not looking to buy the lowest price. I’m looking to buy the right price. The right price is the stock moves in my direction quickly, as fast and furious as possible. Well, I think that’s a perfect analogy. I I love that. I’ve I don’t think I’ve ever heard that or if I’ve heard it, I’ve forgotten it. And so that that is perfect. And I guess the way I I look at things the same way, but just how I would phrase it is if you look at enough charts, you know what normal and natural is, you know? So you you see a cup with handle that’s about to break out and you go, okay, a successful breakout is going to look like this. Unsuccessful is going to look like this. You’re not predicting. You just know you’re putting them in the different buckets. Like a super successful will look like this. And if you look at enough of them, you just know what normal and natural is. Just kind of like the way Liverour would phrase things, you know, similarly. And I think that’s what happens with all the experience that you’ve had and and all the charts that I’ve looked at is you you’re not predicting it, but you sure know like, okay, this next bar should be like this if it’s still acting within care. And we’re not always right, but it’s probabilities. And we don’t have, but again, necessary. Is it necessary to be always right? No, no, it’s not necessary. So, you don’t have to always be right. So, it goes back to Livermore for me, too, because Livermore said, “Never be afraid of normal action, but be very afraid of abnormal action.” So, again, Livermore crystallized when I read Livermore, I immediately realized, aha, this is where Bill, this is Bill’s lineage. Yeah. Yeah. Livermore and and Jiller love that Drifus. That’s Bill’s lineage. And so I studied that and then that really made me understand where Bill was coming from and that enabled me to then go forward. Yeah. And the drive Yeah. the Drifus thing was a big deal for him and and if folks don’t know this story basically, you know, Drifus fund was was one of the best out there. He got the the all the reports. I think I have them out in the garage somewhere, the original ones. And when he plotted it out, he saw that they were buying them. He was always buying at new highs. And that was that that moment that just changed everything for Bill. And in all the years that in the hundreds and thousands of stocks that I recommended to him, I never gave him one that was more than 15% off its high. And typically, they were within 10%. Because I didn’t want to get my head handed to me. And also I don’t like them in the other position, you know, like you learn to, you know, look at a certain way. And like you said, some people might be able to figure out how to buy it at the bottom of the cup. I don’t know how to do it, so I’m not going to try. You know, it’s just Yeah. You do what you know how to do. Yeah. You stay in your lane and you master that lane. And that’s and that’s all you need. You only need one strategy to to to make it uh to And you know, I don’t you look, it depends on what your goal is. Most people’s goal in the stock market is not I mean they may say it’s money and it’s to get rich but it’s really not. It’s it’s it’s the game. It’s excitement. It’s gambling. It’s you know adrenaline and it’s really not because just like if you want to become a great basketball player or anything the practice that it takes it’s not fun. Just like in the studio, like we would be in the studio with these songs for months and you know, by the time you even cut a record, you hate the song. It’s like you heard it 9 million times. You know, I don’t know how you know the Rolling Stones keep playing or keep playing. They’re still playing Jumping Jack Flash. I shoot myself, you know. So, but uh yeah, you know, it’s it’s not all that it’s cracked up to be. It’s not fun. You have to have a bigger goal. But those who, you know, want the excitement and they get in there and then when that’s not exciting them, you know, they they they, you know, they lose their money and that excites them. Then then it’s exciting coming back and and you know, and that’s part of, you know, that that’s that’s what they went in with and that’s what they came out with. You know, what what takes you to heaven takes you to hell in the market. You know, this is this is a saying and most people don’t understand really what that means. All right, let me tell you what that really means. So, if you if you cut your losses and you religiously cut your losses and let’s just say, you know, you draw a line in the sand like I did and you say, “I’ve never taken a a loss more than this.” Well, the if you’re going to go to hell, it’s going to be by getting stopped out a zillion times. But what what is your what’s going to make you succeed is what’s going to make you fail. Well, if if volatility if you don’t cut your losses, just the opposite. You’re going to have periods where you go through pullbacks and only to have gigantic upside moves and you’ll go through all the noise and you won’t get stopped out that much, but eventually the volatility will get you and you’ll blow up and lose everything and you’ll and and 50% decline that you held through will turn into a 80 or a 90 and it never comes back. So what takes you to heaven takes you to hell. And what you have to do is you have to manage that. You’ve got to manage that. So even if you’re using stop losses, that doesn’t mean that you can’t blow up. You can blow up because there’s markets, again, we’ll go back to Bill’s book. There’s a there’s one page, a loud warning to the wise. You know that page, right? Everybody should read that page because there’s times where you just need to do nothing and sit back and as Bill said, even a skunk isn’t going to make a scent. Yeah, he and he would say that in the in the office all the all all the time or you know what was it? He would also say, you know, this market where even pigs could fly. And he had all those, right? The the the weird sayings. But this for people who don’t know the the word to the wise, basically what he was talking what Bill was talking about was in a bare market or a correction, these patterns that we look for don’t work. They will break out because everyone’s seeing them and computers are seeing them. they’ll break out and then they’ll fail because they only work in a trend really. You know, there there’s always exceptions, but that’s what he because people would read the book, be in a bare market, buy these cups with handles, and get their head handed to them or double bottoms, flat bases, all the same, and not realize that, hey, it’s not the system that’s not working. The system is saying you need to be light or out of this market, which is just hard for people to just go to cash or go very light in the market. There were times where Bill would keep the us as PMs maximum invested 1% total exposure. Yeah. Because the market was that bad. I mean, are there times just a little bit to keep a little finger on the pulse. What I call pilot buys. Yeah. And Yeah. And but but no really no exposure. Yeah. And and I do think the Here’s another thing. Mike, I want to say something else. Sorry to interrupt, but so before I forget, my memor is not as good as it used to be. So even in interviews now, I usually like take notes. I haven’t taken any notes yet in this one. So, we’re flowing pretty good. Good. But but yeah, and I’m kind of I’m already forgetting. That’s why I should have taken a note. What were you just saying? We were talking about the word to the wise and we were talking about Bill being having us at only 1% in the market and I think you were going to start talking about pilot positions in a bad market. No, but I I it I had a really important thought and that’s why I was like, “Oh my god, I’m losing this thought and I got to remember.” But it’ll come back to me in just a minute. Well, while you Well, I’ll say something and maybe it’ll give you a chance to to think because Oh, you can edit this out anyway. Oh, no. Okay. I’ll edit out anything you want. You don’t have to. That’s okay. No problem. I don’t This is the fun This is the fun part of my thing. I just It is what it is. The Oh, I got it. I got it. I got it. So, like the January effect. This is This is really important. This is really important for traders to understand. This is key. So I always hear, well, you know what? If you and Bill O’Neal and everybody write all these books and everybody’s doing it and then it and we’re looking for inefficient pricing, well, wouldn’t that make it efficient and then it wouldn’t work? And the answer is yes. And it’s a and and that’s great because you know why? Because then it doesn’t work and nobody does it anymore and they stop and then it works like a charm. I love when breakouts don’t work and the longer they don’t work the more I can’t wait until everybody gives up on them and they say break just not long ago a couple people that you might know who I’m talking about but some smart people and some long-term very long successful practitioners of breakouts and can slim or saying breakouts don’t work anymore you know what the biggest stocks the companies that are multiundred billion trillion dollar companies like Nvidia I came out of absolutely perfect patterns. Yeah. Yeah. Perfect patterns. So, yes, that’s part of a strategy. If a strategy worked in perpetuity, I would be the richest man in the world. I’d be I would I’d be a trillionaire if it always worked. I parlay my money. But, you know, part of the strategy is the time where it’s not working and you managing through that, recognizing that and sitting back. And this goes back again to a the the sentence that Bill O’Neal said that literally made me $100 million and made my entire career. I built my entire career on one Bill O’Neal sentence. And he said, and again I’m forgetting again, this is a weird thing that’s going on. He said that while you do nothing, while you do nothing, those who are less skilled and less disciplined are laying the groundwork for your success. Now, when I first read that, I passed over it. It meant nothing to me. It meant nothing to me. Then I started realizing, you know what? When this strategy is not working and people are saying it doesn’t work, that’s where where they give up on it. And that’s where the inefficiency comes in. When things are efficient, that’s when everybody’s using it, right? That’s why the market overall the market’s pretty efficient. But then you’ve got some stock that is a little company that does business with Boeing. Boeing’s the big company that everybody’s trading, but there’s a little company that makes wire harnesses for Boeing and Boeing’s giving them big contracts and they’re growing it 100% a quarter and that’s and there’s an inefficiency there. And then overall that particular strategy gets popular. Everybody’s using it. It doesn’t work. So they give up on it because people are not disciplined and they’re constantly moving and changing and it’s dynamic. And those of us that are disciplined and stay with it, that’s when we just like, you know, a basketball team that one basketball team’s hitting three-point shots. Boom. Threes, threes, threes. Can you win a basketball game with three-point shots? No way. No way. The percentage is too low. So, you may go on this streak, but longer term, you need more than that. The the the the team that is disciplined and has the full game, they’re going to eventually get there. a very one-sided team or or a team that only has a you know one or two weapons in the in the uh uh in the arsenal is going to be isn’t going to last isn’t going to last. And that’s goes back to Vince Lombardi. I studied a lot of Vince Lombardi’s rules and you know just working on the fundamentals and being great at blocking, tackling, running, passing though. Get those down. We’re going to do those and we’re going to do those better than anybody else. And then when then we’re going to stay in the game and we’re going to win because we’ve got the best discipline. And that’s how I built my my entire career was built on that sentence from O’Neal. While you’re doing nothing, less disciplined, less skilled traders are laying the groundwork. All that noise in the cup, all that when it culminates and finally the supply stops coming to market and that price gets real tight and the volume comes way down and you’ve got that nice structure. That’s when all the noise has passed. And now we’ve got the Livermore, the line of least resistance. The line of most resistance becomes the line of least resistance. So this this is look, this is a topic that I can go on for days and days and days as we do at my master trader program. Yeah. So when is that master’s program this? Is it in November again or October or I [clears throat] honest to God, I don’t know the exact date, but it is in November. Yeah. I know we have our gala for our for our members. Um the live in person gala is October 10th. that’s free for those of who come to the master trader program or who are are members on our platform. Uh that’s October 10th. The master trader program is sometime in November. I don’t remember exactly, but um it’s 5 days, four days of curriculum, one day of live trading and two days of question and answer. And so it’s 7 days total. Forstocktraders.com is where you go to find that date. Okay. Well, great. And and so in your the website for your service, your private access service, what what is that again? Uh well, there’s mineralini.com and there’s minvenrivac.com. So either one of those go to the uh the uh educational service and to the platform service where has the charts and all that stuff. Well, that’s cool. I loved all the stuff that you were that you were talking about and there’s so many things that that I’ve wanted to add to it, but the probably the most important thing because you’ve gone back to it several times is the cutting loss thing and how important that was when you did your original study and that Larry reached out to you. So in 2015ish, I spent a couple years creating uh Juan’s first Algo, full blackbox Algo, no human interaction, and it was kind of a proof of of concept because they’ve got other ones now, but it was built on my pattern recognition that that I built. And I would just endlessly do back tests without data fitting, which is a very important thing to do. Most people do back tests end up data fitting and you’ve got to be very guard yourself against that at all costs otherwise it’s all worthless. But when I would do it, I would test out I would just change one variable to get an understanding of what was going on. And one of the things that I did obviously was cutting your loss and cutting it, you know, different set points. Some ways I would do it would be off the low of the day before the breakout or the day before that. and then also percentages. And it was so obvious that when you ran these studies and it was from a a data set from all the everything in the database from 1963 to 2013, that was my test universe. And it was just so clear that cutting your losses as quickly as possible just just changed it. It was just like what you said from that minus 15% to a plus 70. um that you talked about, it was just that on steroids when you do it over decades and decades. And so I I could just totally agree with you that there’s nothing better than than cutting your loss. But you also have to make sure that you’re not buying in in times where it’s just chop, which is something I have to guard myself against and get smaller in in those times. But you also said the thing about some very veteran people that I was shocked with because there were a lot of them saying that that breakouts didn’t work anymore. I was just like, “Wow, man.” That was music to my ears cuz I was like, “You love it.” That’s like saying gravity isn’t going to work anymore. It’s absurd. Stocks are going to move sideways and they’re going to move up and they’re going to move down. It’s that simple. But but go now. So, I’ve become friends with a bunch of the market wizards over the years and and even some non quote unquote official market wizards that are the market wizards books but guys that are very well respected like Stan Weinstein and you know a handful of really wonderful people who were my mentors you know and Larry height being one of them as you’ve just mentioned one of my main mentors and and and what a great friend he said that he did a study where they just randomly picked stocks And then they just used like a r a predetermined arbitrary stop and just set that stop loss and that made money just simply by you know having an arbitrary stop and randomly. So we did the same thing. We did a what we called a a dart test. We threw darts and this is another thing that Larry really liked about my approach or my some of my stories of how we uh did some research. We pre-seelelected the list though. So what we did was we got stocks that were high alpha that were in uptrend. So they already had a lot of momentum and then that was a pre-selected list and then we threw darts at it and then we just set a arbitrary stop loss and it did really well. It did it it it beat the market like almost every year for a long period of time. It was really really fascinating and and and again was another step in my see I don’t even do those things anymore because like I was still convincing myself back then I think you know is as much as [clears throat] I believed in it I think I was still always like re-kicking the tires and making sure this still going to work. Is this is this too good to be true? You know it’s yeah it’s still is this still going to work? I you I’m at the point now where, you know, there’s there’s there’s nothing that could convince me that, you know, my principles and what I know isn’t correct and isn’t timeless and isn’t going to last for forever because like it’s like gravity and you know that. So yeah, so that was that was something. The other thing too you said about back testing and not curve fitting that’s because you don’t back test, you factor model and it’s it’s completely the opposite of back testing. You know, I tell people they say, “Well, you back you back test.” No, what we do is we go back and say, let’s go back and look at all the Olympic athletes that won gold and let’s ask them, is there anything that you eat in the morning? Okay, is there any exercise that you do? What’s your pre-ine? What are you thinking? And then you know what? If we go and ask 500 gold medalists and every single one of them say, “I do this at 9:00 a.m.” You could be rest assured that that’s pretty important. Yeah, that’s a good that’s a good analogy. I I I Yeah, that you you’ve got great analogies, man. That’s So, you want to hear something funny? Yeah. Yeah. There was a there’s a guy named Adam Shell. He used to write for USA Today. I don’t know where he is now. I think he still writes. Yeah. Every now and then he calls me out of the blue, out of years go by. But he used to quote me a lot and he would he would he would the phone would ring and he’d say, “Hi, is this Metaphor man? I I need I need some I need some analogies and some metaphor.” He called me metaphor man. So yeah, I guess I have a knack for analogies and metaphors. You you really do. And and we’ve got someone on on staff who’s really good with Ed Carson, uh one of the writers, and he’s on IBD Live, and he just comes up with some of the best analogies, but off just off the cuff, and I’m like, “Wow, I I I wish I had that type of brain.” But I just I love your positivity about things and the hard work that you’ve you’ve put into things and and you helping out the community with with with all the stuff the the service that you provide. Why don’t you explain to people what with your service what it is that you actually provide to them? Well, I don’t want to waste it would use this time to do promotional stuff. You could just go to my website. Just go to min.com. and go to min private access. Look, I am blessed beyond what I I could die tomorrow and feel okay. I that that that was my goal in life. My goal was to be able to on my deathbed to be able to not have regrets to to feel like I made a difference. I have a legacy. I did what I had to do and and I was a good person. Uh you know, it it it I I I don’t want to die tomorrow. I want to live a long time because I have a lot more to give and I have a lot more to do. But if I did, I would really feel like I got a really good deal because I I I’m so blessed and I’m even more blessed. It’s a it’s actually a privilege to share to share and to teach others is a privilege. And and I think it’s almost a responsibility, you know, when you have when you’re blessed with with really big success, you really should pass it along and pass the torch. So So yeah, so that’s what we do. You know, we’re doing, you know, we’ve got just great people that work with us and great clients. We’ve got wonderful customers and you know it’s I’m easy to find. Well, that Google my name and you and you’re going to find a thousand pages. I’m easy to find. Yeah. No, you you Well, you promised we’re going to talk about music. Yes, we’re gonna and so I’m I’m getting I just wanted to put that that offer out there before. So, let let me let me share this. I don’t think we have sound on it. So, I’ll I’ll try to figure out have to have sound. Yeah. Let’s see. At least you and I can have sound. music without sound. It’s I can hear the sound but hear the sound, right? You can hear the sound. So, yeah. You want to you want to explain what that is? Okay. I’m gonna have to figure out how to wait because you couldn’t hear any of that, right? I can’t hear it. No. Oh, okay. So, I’m gonna have to fly it in. You got to fly it in later. Yeah, I I’ll put it I’ll put it in later. It’s too good to leave out. It’s just too good. It it it really is. And I don’t know. I’m just, you know, I’m I’m doing this Webbby rambles on like as a side thing for fun and so I don’t know how to really edit things, but I’ll figure out how to put that in there. But that was from your Well, you tell people where that was from. Well, so my 60th birthday party, I had a a pretty big bash. had a a band and I played with the band and there was over,00 people at my birthday party and it it was when I say overwhelmingly emotional. Um I had like a little speech I was going to give and I I couldn’t even do it. I was so overtaken with emotion because I looked in the audience I well I did say some things and I and talked to to some people that were in my past that were there. I had people there that I didn’t see since junior high school. Uh people I haven’t seen in 40 years. So just imagine you look out into an audience and there’s,00 people and you know every one of them like it was really bizarre and and people that you haven’t seen for 30 40 years and you know people you love and it’s just was amazing. So yeah so we had a party it was a huge party and and I played with the band and it was just awesome. Well that’s that’s that’s and if you take a look at it it’s a it’s a major production. This wasn’t a little thing. This was Oh, no. And you’d rented out the whole house of blues. I’ve heard from from the guys who went there like that. I’m just so stupid for not going. I just couldn’t go. You were nice. Of all people, you’re the one who really should have been. [laughter] I really, dude, I really should have been. And Jude, you were such a good drummer. I mean, it’s clear that you were doing that for a gig at one point in life because Yeah. I mean it if you ever wanted to retire from trading, which I know you won’t ever because you don’t I am a pro. I am a pro. I am an absolute pro when it comes to playing drums. [laughter] Yeah, it’s clear. I mean, it was like I I am a hack at guitar. Like I just do it as a way of relaxing. But to to watch you play the drums like that, man, dude, you you’re the real deal. My life was drums. My life was music. My life was drums. Is how much I put into stocks. I put that much into drums and early on and that’s all I did. I I I dropped out of school at 8th grade because I made a record and I was a you know playing out gigging and that was my that was going to be my career and so um yeah that was there’s a couple things I do well. Drumming is one of them. Well, and that’s I mean you’re probably the one of the most successful or the most successful person that dropped out before high school that I’ve ever heard of. Like I mean back in the day, you know, 100 years ago that was different. But in in modern times, true. It’s so unusual for that. I mean, you see that with a lot of musicians who will, you know, skip their junior or senior year because they got to go out on tour, but doing it at eighth grade, it’s a miracle. It’s a miracle. And you said about analogies and all that. And I I really I honestly think that, you know, lack of education almost in one way was a benefit. It worked for me to figure things out and to simplify them and to have to put them into visuals and to not have the lexicon or the, you know, the the education to maybe coalesce things in a certain way. I had to figure out more sort of real life ways to do it. And maybe that’s part of because as far as education, I mean, I’m I’m actually staring at about 4,500 books right now in my bookcase. I I I have uh which I’ve actually just been moving over. at only about twothirds of them right now, but I still keep all my my hard coverver books, all my uh you know, I don’t like things in digital form. I’ve read thousands and thousands and thousands of books. You know, I’ve educated myself as as much as any PhD, probably much more than a PhD, specifically in the topics of, you know, finance and and mindset and psychology and things like that. So, I’m highly educated. I’m just self-educated. And I think that’s even more important. And I got to say with with Bill, it was very clear that how he would treat people when we when they would come through the doors that had like an MBA from an Ivy League school, he would he would kind of look down on them. And the more of them that you’re around, it’s a generalization. There there there exceptions, but typically a lot of those people didn’t put in the grunt work that you and I did because lots of times when you get into those schools, you kind of had a silver spoon life. Yeah. Generalizing, not, you know, but that’s how that’s how he would be with people and and he would, you know, someone didn’t even go to to college or whatever, he he didn’t care. It was about like what do you know and what type of work ethic do you have? Yeah, I think that’s way more important than what degree you have. Well, you know, both have their advantages and disadvantages. Poverty has less advantages. It uh because the real problem with poverty is you have a poverty mindset, which took me a lot of years to get over and to feel deserving of success and to um to have that. That’s why I studied. I studied um Olympic athletes. I went into a very deep um study of spiritual study and and study of successes. And that’s what my mindset book is all about. It’s all based on all those studies I did. I worked with lots of coaches and just went to I went to Anthony Robbins nine times. I went to every seminar you can think of. I I literally have a library of uh tapes and cassette tapes alone. I probably have, you know, five or six hundred, another five or six hundred CDs. You know, I listen to these things, subliminal tapes around the clock, just everything you could think of, you know, to get the knowledge and to self-educate myself and to get the the mindset of a winner. Now, you get the the person who grows up wealthy, you know, this is something I’m trying to protect my daughter against. Growing up with everything that you could possibly need, and then you feel you have a sense of entitlement and that could make you lazy and it can make you not have the work ethic. So like both have their disadvantages and they have advantages too. There are there’s actually some advantages from being a street guy and learning uh you know from the ground up and of hard knocks. And there’s a big advantage of course of going to I try to tell my daughter you tell her she says well you dropped out of school you know why do I need to go because that that’s a great experience as well with contacts and things you learn and education. There’s all kinds of wonderful things that you can get from that too. So, um, you know, it’s it’s, uh, I I’d love to go to, you know, to go to school now. I’d probably do, you know, better. People I think people do best with at school if they do it later on, you know, after they’re not kids and, you know, when you start to see the value of it and then you decide on something that you want to learn. Um, a lot of kids go to school and they take subjects and they don’t really know what they want to do yet. And so, they come out with, I have a friend who came out with a degree in art history and said, “What am I going to do with this?” like you know at the time you know that that was the thing that you know uh she was interested in but yeah so I’m all I’m I’m not one of those people who are against education or school I think it’s great you know but I also think um you know learning from the ground up and and and and getting your your lumps uh in in the school of hard knocks is also important. Well, I I I think it is and and I’ve actually thinking about at some point maybe um because I don’t have an MBA or anything and so lots of times you you need an MBA or PhD to be able to teach at a college but I think junior colleges and in private ones sometimes they they have exceptions and I just love teaching and it’s something I might do just for fun and and teach a course or or on trading. Is that something you would ever do at like a on a college level? I mean, you know, so I lectured a lot at colleges. I’ve been I lectured the college circuit and I’ve done a bunch of workshops and teachings at colleges. Oh, cool. So, yeah, I have done that. I did that quite a while ago, too. So, I I do from time to time teach at I again I don’t think I would want to be a teacher that went every day. Um I like doing big special events and things that are very focus. I think that would be a little easier. Yeah. So, but but yeah, I mean there’s a lot of guys there’s a lot of guys that you would know uh you know that are are on YouTube and have services that you know I went and did lectures and and spoke to them. They were in the audience uh at at Did you do Dr. Wish’s thing the universe Maryland? Yeah, Dr. Wish is uh actually Rich Richard Mglin was Dr. Wish’s assistant who like took care of me when I went to the college and a couple times and I I Dr. Wish’s had uh had my book as mandatory reading in his class and so I did his uh course several times and went there and did uh seminars and workshops at the University of Maryland. Um yeah, I’ve done a bunch of stuff like that. So I love teaching young people. It’s awesome. I mean that’s that’s that’s the future. I mean, you know, especially real real young children is where I’d really like to teach mindset. You know, I think my mindset book kids that are in, you know, elementary school should read. Yeah. And and so, you know, that’s the future. I I agree. And the the Dr. Wish who who Richard hooked me up with him as well. I love Richard. He’s such a such a good kid. I just can’t imagine where he’s an awesome person. Yeah. Well, I I did speak do the thing with Dr. Wish and spoke to his kids, but it was over Zoom and it was so much fun because I mean, we never released it out to the the public. It was just for his his class, but some of them once I told them like just ask me anything. They really got into it and it was so rewarding because all these people are graduates of my master trader program. Dr. Wish Wish came to the program. They all came to Yeah. all are people who came to my master trader program. Well, that’s great. Well, we’re going to switch gears to music. So, this is this is the fun part of Webbby rambles on. So, what we do is we ask and you got to think of it this way. You it you’re like Gilligans Island. You’re stuck on Gilligans Island and you only have one album that you can listen to and that’s the only thing you’re going to listen to the whole time you’re there. So, what is that album? And don’t tell me your favorite song off of it because we’re going to figure that one out together. Yeah. So, first of all, you did give me a heads up on this and you you gave me you gave me some color as to what you were going to talk about and with music and I actually took some notes and then it turned into ages. Well, that’s exactly what I would have done, man. And I’m going to tell you the reason why I am my music knowledge if you want or my breath of music and what I have gone through and listened to and has inspired me is deep deep like it I am so wellrounded in music that’s why I can play a lot of different types of music on the drums. I am very well-rounded because my mother and father introduced me to music very young. My my mother took me to concerts when I was six years old, seven years old. Yeah, I went I you know I saw Led I saw Led Zeppelin in the 70s in New Haven, Connecticut. I saw Emerson Lake and Palmer at the Yale Bowl in New Haven, Connecticut like when I was like eight. Yeah. You I was at Jethro Toll concerts and Chicago when I was and this inspired me to be a drummer and I played drums in this in school. Uh and and so but when I started my my parents, my mother, they were they were hippies. They were flower ch children, you know, and they Yeah. So like so I kind of broke it down. I said, you know, I have like a bunch of buckets of music that I went through o over the years. It started off I was thinking like what did it start with? It started with Seals and Croft, uh, Simon and Garfuncle, Joanie Mitchell, Carol King, Carly Simon, James Taylor, The Beatles, Arlo Guthrie, Bonnie Ra, which recorded in my studio by the way. Wow. Awesome. Yeah, great. So, that’s it started with that. Then, it’s so funny because where we moved kind of changed things. We moved and we and I ended up being in a a pretty bad neighborhood. Let’s just put it that [laughter] way. Okay. a pretty bad neighborhood, very ghetto neighborhood. My my parents divorced and my mother was poor and we ended up in not a very good situation. I’m sorry. But the music changed. It went to Ohio Players, Earthwind and Fire, Cool in the Gang, BT Express, Average White Band, Jackson 5, Al Green, Teddy Pendergrass, Barry White, all black music. All black music. Yeah. So, um, and then I like funk. Tower of Power. I love funk. I to this day I love Tower of Power. I love funk. Then my mother because I got in a lot of trouble in the city, we moved. We moved to a rural area and there I met some kids and then they were listening to Alice Cooper, UFO, white kids going into a different type of music now. Deep Purple, Black Sabbath, Kiss, Aerosmith, you know, and so now it shifted and I went into a different type of music. I met this guy, his name was Lee Seagull. He was much older than me. I was like 13 years old and he was like in his 20s. This guy would have been the best ANR man on planet earth. He he introduced me to every band that became a big band he knew before it was ever going to happen. He play he played a cassette tape of Van Halen at the Whiskey Agogo in Yes. on H in uh in LA before they even had an album. And yeah and he’s like you got to hear this man. This is going to this is going to be this band is going to be the biggest band in the world. And I’m listening to Van Halen. Yeah. I’m listening to Running with the Devil before it ever hit an album. When it when the album came out, he he was like we were like waiting for that album because he had told me. So So So then I was listening like Blue Cult. Uh my my one of my favorites of all time is Rainbow with Richie Blackmore’s Rainbow with Dio Ronnie James singing Cozy Powell on drums. So I was a drummer. So like a lot of these bands were because of drummers like Rush, Neil Perk. Yeah. Zeppelin, John Bonham. These are my biggest probably my biggest influences on the drums would be Neil Perk, John Bonham, Cozy Powell, uh Simon Phillips, who was people don’t realize was on the early Judas Priest albums. If you go back and you listen to Judas Priest, Sin After Sin, Stay in Class, these are like incredibly m musician music. Like it’s it’s unbelievable. Uh so then uh then Queen now and the biggest record I think the the big shift the one of the biggest shifts in music there was basically there was four shifts in music. The first was the Beatles. Now everything goes to the the Beatles is the number one band of all time as far as I’m concerned. The Beatles shift well Elvis Elvis shifted music. You know Chubby Checker and and Elvis Buddy Holly of course and Buddy Holly that was the first you know shift or the introduction. Then the shift was the Beatles. That was the shift. Then the next big shift was Van Halen. The Van Halen one album was was was an atom bomb. It was literally that was the atomic bomb that everything before that it was Black Sabbath. It was Deep Purple. By the way, you asked for one song. Oh, no. Dude, I love this. This is the happiest. I just want to point out this is what asking for one song led into No, I love this. This is awesome. Can I take control of this topic or what? Yeah. No, I want to give you an album with with your music knowledge cuz mine is very like I like know this much and you’re you’re like very music was my life and still is my life but music was my life. That’s all I did. I used to sleep out for concert tickets for three days in a sleeping bag. Um you know I went to hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of concerts. It was my life. That’s all I wanted to do was be play on stage, be a drummer, tour. So yeah. So now then I got into then it was Van Halen. Then after Van Halen, the shift that I told you that changed my life and for the better, for the worse for the music, but for the better for ultimately for money was Nirvana. That was the next big shift was Grunge, Public Enemy, Run DMC, rap, and Nirvana. Grunge. Those are the shifts. So then after that, uh, 2112 was a big record, was a big album. Then it got into like DO and hair bands like Rat and all that stuff that it got very commercial and fun. So like those are that’s my journey through music. Like it started with Yeah. It started with the real the greats and then it went to the the great black music and the Mottown and then it went to the heavy rock, the acid rock and then it went to the heavy metal, you know, Metallica’s first album, Kill Them All. Phenomenal record. My favorite record of Metallica. One of my favorite records of all time. You know, I I heard that album, too. My friend uh uh Rob Garvey called me up. He said, “Come on over.” I went in his garage. He had a tape he had a tape of them playing at a club called Lamore which I end I played at there was Lamore in Brooklyn. They’re playing at this small club and they’re playing the Four Horsemen. They’re playing Whiplash. Probably the best song on that album I I think and I there’s a cassette tape of it. It didn’t even The first record that came out was a four song EP. So like I was listening to this music before it even hit vinyl. Wow. Yeah. It was you know really Yeah. cutting edge of. So I think I’m I’m a bit older than you, right? You’re Well, I’m I’m going to be 55 in July. So not that big, but it’s like a generation music. Five or six years sometimes depending on where it is is actually could be kind of big and 10 years could be huge with music depending on where it is on what you know what era. But uh yeah, so I’m very fortunate in that way too where I was exposed to all these arts and music and my parents were really into, you know, into the arts and and and and particularly music. Um and my father my my mother and my father really encouraged me with with playing the drums and music. Like I was never told that I should get a job or no way. I was like, you know, hey, be a rock drummer, you know, be be a great rock drummer, you know. Oh, that’s that’s great. That’s great parenting as far as I’m concerned. Well, the one thing I’m most jealous about, not your cars or your watches or your books or anything, is the fact that that, and I’m not kidding at all, that you got to go see Van Hagar there at the Live Without a Net recording. Like, I cannot tell you how many times I had that on VHS, wore that out, then I had on DVD, it’s not worn out. I watch it any chance I get. Tell me about that concert. That That was like That was epic. So, so the House of Blues that I had my birthday party at, I saw I saw Sammy at Really? Michael Anthony was playing bass. Yeah. Yeah. It was It was really cool. It was When I say packed, beyond the fire marshall level, there’s no words that can describe. I don’t know how they got away with it. It was people literally on on top of each other. It was like piled. And it was Yeah. And that was one of the best concerts I think I ever saw cuz it was like a party. Sammy put everybody behind the stage too. He had like a stadium like almost like Wabo thing that he does. Yes. He had like a bleacher all behind the stage. So everybody’s looking behind the drummer and and and it was like a Cabo Wabo kind of like a tropical scene. Yeah. Like you were in the tropics and here’s this band playing and I mean he’s playing like rock candy. He’s playing like you know songs that Yeah. All old school stuff. No, the one I also had to tell you that I grew up on was Ronnie Montros, which was Yeah. Yeah. Ronnie Montro, stuff like that, you know, real good old school. Obviously, Bad Company and things like that. Yeah. Mantra, Bad Company. I mean, just great. No, but as far as and maybe you’ve forgotten that that the Live Without a Net, the Van Halen concert that is on footage, you had told me before that you saw that. So that’s right when like 5150 came out and and you got to see that that tour. To be honest, be honest with you, I was not a big I was kind of upset that Van Halen broke up and was and as much as I love Sammy Hagar, I was like a lot of people was skeptical and kind didn’t hadn’t really bought in yet, you know. Yeah. I hadn’t bought in. Fair and spooky a little bit. Sammy was like Sammy and Van Halen was Van Halen and I loved Sammy and I loved Van Halen and I and at the time I mean David Lee Roth has kind of turned into a little bit of a clown at this point. Yeah. You know, I mean it’s it’s really amazing he was this sex symbol and you know where it’s gone. But then again, look at me. I’m bald and you know, so I I understand it. You know, we get old. But I mean at the time David Lee Roth was like this iconic he was like one of the greatest front men of all time you know and Sammy wasn’t yet Sammy was kind of an unknown you know he really yeah Van Halen made Sammy you know blow up and then and then people realized how great Sammy Hagar was. I already knew Sammy Hagar was awesome but yeah it was he was kind of like more underground. Yeah. So the but the Van Halen concert that really was the Titanic show. It was when they backed up Black Sabbath at New Haven Coliseum in 1978. Oh, you and you saw them there? I saw that. And they booed Azie. They booed Black Sabbath. Like, and that was when the when the concert started, there was everybody had signs. They This was a popular thing at Black Sabbath concert. They It would have signs that say Azie is God. There was all these Aussie is God signs all over. And after Van Halen got off, they booed Black Sabbath. We’re we’re cheering for Yeah. for Eddie to come back out because Eddie Van Eddie Van Halen came out and is like, you know, I mean, this is like what what what’s going on here? This is a Yeah. Earth shifted. Yeah. He was like an alien that was just dropped down and and just changed everything. As far as guitar playing, you know, that is the that’s the big shift. That is the uh the San Andreas fault where the you know we fell off the edge there up and and and everything from that point on then it goes in Bame Malmstein and then everything from that point on can be attributed to them. Um and before that you know they were listening to Jeff Beck and Eric Clapton and you know and and and Richie Blackmore is actually very underrated. He’s he’s a huge influence for most of these superstar guitar players. So yeah, I mean I got a huge depth of knowledge when it comes to music. I know my music from like the 60s on, you know, if now modern music, I don’t know anything, you know. But me either, man. Like to the 90s, I know everything. Yeah. I I still look at the Black Crows as a new group, and I’m like, and I’m not even kidding. There there’s one artist out that I’ve told you about before, Marcus King. You should check him out the next time he’s in your area. He’s the real deal. I I like look at him as kind of a combination of like if you were to take like some of the the artists you were talking about of uh from the soul type of time as well as then blues people like a a Freddy King or BB King and also put a Stevie Ray in there and you put a Clapton in there. It all meshed together. You you’ve got to go see him. He he is the real deal. But getting back to the music as far as Sammy, are you do you know are you coming to the Founders Club in in Vegas this year? I I’m going to try. I I told I think it was Aroucher I spoke to about it that I I was going to make a very, you know, big effort to be there. So I I’m I’m going to try to be there. I’m not sure yet if I don’t like I don’t even like the word try. I hate the word try. I very seldom ever use it. So I’m going I’m I’m it I’m planning on doing it, you know, and then we have to see. I’m not sure how it corresponds with my scheduling. One of the big things now is my racing. I’m racing and Oh, gotcha. And right now I’m I’m doing really well and I and I want I need to collect the points and go to all these races. So I’m I’m not sure how that I didn’t really take that into consideration when I Well, if it works out for you. Well, I was gonna just wanted to let you know. So Sammy’s doing his his tour there. Oh, his residency that I’ve seen both years and I saw it this year and last year and it was and it’s right there on the strip and and he’s got Mikey there at your playing base and it’s just in the same thing that you were talking about there some people up on stage. Not as big as when they used to do the Cabo type of full thing, but at least some outside this going to be outdoors. No, it’s it’s indoors at the MGM Park MGM and it’s just a It’s just great. When I last I was just in Vegas. I was just in Vegas with my wife. Well, yeah. No, he wasn’t playing then. He He played for a little bit in March and then then he’s playing again in September. So, you should see that. And then obviously Metallica is going to be playing at the Sphere. So, I was at the Sphere, too. I went to see the Sphere and and it it was awesome. Yeah. So, that I would love to see a concert at the sphere. I haven’t seen a concert yet. I saw the Wizard of Oz there. Oh, okay. I heard that was good. I saw dead in company at the sphere twice and it just I mean there’s just nothing nothing like that. It’s insane. It’s just unbelievable. I actually waited I right after that I waited for a pivot develop and I bought I bought the stock and I’ve traded it several times just because of that. I won’t hold it if it goes and it hits my stock. But I what I but I I do believe it’s an amazing thing that should be you know in many places around the world. And I don’t know if how profitable it’ll be, but certainly it’s it’s Yeah. I think it to it’s like $2 billion or something to build it, maybe more. And when you’re in it, you’re like, “Yeah, it easily costs that much.” It’s It’s unbelievable. Just Just unbelievable. I was We were just in Vegas. It was funny cuz I I I I often say there’s millions of people that know me, but there’s billions that don’t. Yeah. And most of the world doesn’t know me. But I I realized that when we went to Vegas, like, you know, nobody knew me until I went into the poker room. And then the people are like like five people immediately came up to me like I knew it was Mark Murvini. They come running up to me and I was like see the poker room. This is where the traders are. If anyone’s going to know who a trader is targeted market, you know they have a targeted market. Yeah. Well, that was funny because I I was walking out of Caesars when I was there for that that concert and someone it’s like Webbby Webbby. And I’m like, hey, you know, like and I’m like, no one knows who I am, but it was it was shocking. He was a dead. You’re in Vegas. You’re in Vegas. And that would be that’d be a place where you’re going to probably see more stock traders. So, with the the assignment, I’m going to give you a pass because you did this whole music history. So, you don’t have one album. I’d like to hear it. I gotta say, you know, it’s a Pink Floyd is really hard to not choose Wish You Were Here or Dark Side of the Moon, but maybe Yeah. I’m just trying to think what would be number one I got to listen to for the rest of my life. Yeah. So, that’s You got to be careful with that, you know, because I wouldn’t pick 5150 because I don’t like the last song on the album and like hearing inside all the time would drive me crazy. I know. Oh, I know. I’m trying to think. I’m a big Yes fan, too, by the way. I don’t know if you like Yes. Yeah, I’m a big Yes. fan. I’m going to narrow it down for you. I’m going to narrow it down. Make it easier for you. I’m going to say it’s got to be between the 60s and the 70s. Wow. You know, the first Boston album, I think, is an amazing album. Yeah. I mean, I I I think I think the first Boston album is one of the greatest albums ever made. It just if you listen to it, the sound of if you get a really great stereo system, you sit down, you listen to that that album. It’s it’s amazing. The songs are amazing. Long time, More Than a Feeling, that would be one. And I think maybe a Pink Floyd. Okay. So, we’re going to go with Boston’s first album. And then we’re first album. I could live with that. I could live with Boston’s first and the Eagles. The Eagles. I mean, the Eagle. Yeah. The Eag Yeah. I mean, those are just it’s a tough choice between those and Pink Floyd. You know, I saw Don Felder. I did a little road trip last year and I saw him in Paso Robas and he was at the state fair and was sad because the place wasn’t even full and here this legend is playing and then he plays the whole thing. people are getting into it. And then he goes to do Hotel California for the, you know, the final encore and his guitar, his double neck wasn’t working for that intro. And like of all things, the the show was perfect technically until then and he just kept I was hoping he was going to stop and restart, but he just played it and uh but it was still great. And what a what a awesome performer, great voice. Okay. There’s so much talent. That band has so much talent individually and collectively is so it it’s just mindboggling. That’s like they’re right there with the Beatles. I mean, it’s Yeah. Yeah. And Joe Walsh was just Joe Walsh. All of them. It’s just really incred an an incredible incredible group of people. So, yeah. Eagles. I I think the most like the most unique band you know a lot of bands people sound like cover like Led Zeppelin you know later on White Snake sounded like them and yeah Pink Floyd nobody’s even attempted that nobody even tries to like you know Pink Floyd to me is one of the most the greatest and most unique bands of all time. The the the the solos are amazing. The the vibe um you know Dark Side of the Moon is the is the album that was on the Billboard charts for the longest of any album. It’s like I don’t know eight years or 10 years or something. It’s classic man. I mean and then comfortably numb the solo for that. I mean it brings a tear to your eye when you listen to it like and it’s so perfect. Yeah. Amazing, you know. So Pink Floyd, you know, would be, you know, Pink Floyd is at the top and like I said, Eagles, you know, rock, you know, Van Halen one, I think is is one of the greatest albums of all time. Okay, wait. We’re gonna switch from Boston. We’re going to switch to Van Halen one and we’re going to go through that one because I understand what you’re saying about how it’s really impossible. So, what we’re going to do is I’m going to give you three or four songs at a time. You’re going to tell me out of those which one is your favorite. Then, we’re going to go back and circle to what your all-time favorite is. So, in order, running with the devil, eruption, you really got me. Running with the devil. Hands down. Okay. Okay. Running. Okay. Ain’t talking about love. Sorry. Ain’t talking about love. I’m the one. Jamie’s crying. Which Which one? Ain’t talking about love. Ain’t talking about love. I’m the one. Jamie’s crying. I’m the one. I’m the one. Okay. Yeah. I’m the one. Okay. Then we’ve got Atomic Punk. Feel your love. I’m already gonna tell you Atomic Punk. So, okay, there you go. I was gonna you you mentioned something about Atomic earlier. I was going to make a reference there, but Okay. Feel your love. And what was the third one? Okay. So, I man, we’re going to do the last ones and we’ll we’ll throw in the Feel Your Love tonight, Little Dreamer, Ice Cream Man, and On Fire. On fire. Okay. All right. So, now we have the four. Although I love Dreamer. I love the I love It is an unbelievable riff. That’s a real tough one. But On Fire is just amazing. I used to listen to On I listened to On Fire probably 1,200 times. Really? That’s awesome. I That album just is incredible. It’s perfect. And you could listen to it on a desert island. So, we’re going to pick your favorite one from there. So, it’s either Running with the Devil, I’m the one, atomic punk, or on fire. I mean, Running with the Devil is iconic. There you go. And that the little little bit at the very beginning of it is like you’re in store for a wild ride with this album, man. It’s iconic. It is. It It really is. and and Eddie is God just we’re so lucky to have had Eddie Jimmy Hendris you know a few of these people Clapton BB King you know Buddy Guy Buddy Guy yeah one of my favorite blues players of all time I saw him I I saw Buddy Guy at the House of Blues where I had my birthday party Oh did you? Oh that’s I saw I saw a lot of people at the House of Blues there in It’s funny about Buddy Guy. My I had a buddy guy Strat that I gave to my son a while back, a red one. They’re typically either white or black, so it’s hard to find a red one. And I bought it. He like polka dot on his on his guitar sometimes. Yeah, the polka dot. Yeah. But when he plays live, normally he doesn’t play play the polka dot very often. But that’s the one that he sells and what he’s known for. But when I decided to go on my health journey on March 2nd, 2023, my son was coming out here to go to see Buddy Guy with me two nights back to back in and there’s a place here where Austin City Limits is that which is a great venue. But and that was the night that I decided to the the night before the Buddy Guy concert. I’m like no more drinking for the rest of my life. And that that was my that was the decision. So, and we used to go see Buddy all the time. I mean, I my kids were or my son was probably 10, probably the first time he he saw Buddy with me. And and Buddy just puts on he’s still touring. I mean, everyone should go see him because he puts on a familyfriendly show, you know, like like BB did. He’s fabulous. I mean, he’s so good. He’s he’s the he’s the like grandfather. I mean, he’s one of the, you know, and he’s still alive. He’s probably 80, you know. I mean, still. No. Yeah, he’s closer to 90 cuz Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, I think he was in his 70s when I saw him. Wow. Yeah. And he he still acts like he’s like he’s in his 50s or 60s, you know. He he Yeah. He he does his best. One one time I I saw him in Orange County and he was sick as a dog, but he my my son and I were second row but on the far far right so we could see the back side of the stage but other seats really couldn’t and he was sick and then every once in a while he’d go around back and you could just see him hacking and and just he was not in good condition and it’s pretty much only us and a couple other people could see how bad he was And then he’d come back out on stage with a big old smile acting like all was good. The show must go on. The show must go on. And and he did it. I mean, he was a and he was in his 70s at that time. So that was that that was a wild ride. Well, I did I did a if you want a little story. Yeah. I did a I did a master trainer program and on the first night I came off stage and I had taken some medication for like inflammation cuz standing for 10 12 hours is tough. I actually broke my I actually broke my foot one time. My foot cracked and I had a broken foot cuz I stood so long in dress shoes. So I said this year this year I’m going to like preemptively strike and take a bunch of I took I think it was a bunch of C I took like a double dose of Celre or something. I forget what it was. I think it was Celre. Anyway, I had a bad response for it. My blood pressure shot up. My heart was racing like crazy. I came off stage and I I went right outside and told my wife, “You got to take me to the hospital right now. I don’t know what’s going on. I I feel like I’m having a heart attack.” So, we we race to the hospital and uh we get there and they hook me on all the machines. They take all these tests, blah blah blah. And uh he comes back and he says, “You know, you’re going to be here, you know, for a while.” It’s like now it’s like 12:00 at night or something. It’s late at night. Um I’ve already been there for hours and hours and hours. They’ve drawn blood. They’ve taken all these things, EKGs. He says, “You’re going to be here for a while.” I said, “Well, how long?” He goes, “Well, you know, a couple days. You know, we’re going to admit you.” And I and we’re going to do tests. I said, “Wait.” I said, “You don’t understand. I’ve got I’ve got 700 people at the Marriott right now and I’ve got to be there for a seminar in the morning. I have a workshop. It’s over a weekend. It’s a full weekend. They travel from all all around the world.” He says, “You realize you could die.” He goes, “I mean, we have to we have to check. I can’t let you leave.” I said, “Look, if I’m going to die, I’m going to die on stage in front of 700 people. I’m leaving.” So, he was all mad and they made me sign a bunch of papers and my wife’s like, “Are you sure about this?” I said, “We’re we’re the show must go on.” And so, I left. I went, they gave me uh they gave me an Adavan, which put me to sleep. Okay. They gave me a sedative. Yeah. I went to I woke up the next day and I did the best show I ever did. [laughter] And I and I told the story. I said I said, “Hey, everyone. I just want to let you know, you know, I was at the hospital all night and didn’t get to bed till 3:00 am in the morning.” and uh don’t I haven’t had a heart attack, but I’m here and we’re going to do this. Yeah. Yeah. So, the show must go on. It it I’ve experienced it. It it must and and I will since we’re sharing stories, I’ll I’ll tell a a related story. So, I was first did the workshops with Bill. It was so Bill and myself. And so, he’d be up there half a day. I’d be up the other half. And that was like the time of my life up there with my idol. Then he got he he couldn’t didn’t want to travel anymore. So he just wanted to do the the local Santa Monica ones. So but the firm was getting used to this money that was coming in because it was like three grand a workshop. And they said, “Well, we don’t want to give up this revenue. Why don’t Chuck and Mike do what Bill and Mike used to do?” And so we started this series called the Chart School. And I took it so seriously because I’m like, “Okay, if we’re going to keep the same price point for Chuck and I that we had for Bill and myself, I’m like, we’ve got to put some really good stuff together. You’re going to deliver. We we’ve got to deliver.” And so we did. It was a really good workshop. And we we spent the two of us spent all this time building up this workbook that was like this big and and this full presentation. And then I got super sick before the first workshop and it was going to be in Santa Monica right down the street from Bill’s house, but Bill wasn’t going to go and it was just be going to be Chuck and I. And I got so sick that I remember standing up from the toilet and just passing out, crashing through my the two days before, this is the Thursday before Saturday workshop, crashing through my shower door. my wife at the time comes in, finds me on the ground, passed out, and um she’s like, “I’m calling 911.” And and I’m like, “No, I’ve got a practice tomorrow for my workshop.” And she’s like, “No, we’re calling 911.” I’m like, “Do not call 911. We got in an argument about it.” I go to work the next day just like hanging on by a thread and they see me and they’re like, “Well, we’ll get Bill to step in for me.” And I’m like, “I’m not going to do this to Bill.” Like, cuz we had this whole new presentation. he would be a fish out of water and people would be happy to have Bill there instead of me because obvious for obvious reasons but it would have put Bill in a bad position and I’m like no you like you said the show must go on so I practiced that day got up on stage I was so sick but I smiled like buddy guy acting like I wasn’t and let me tell you I was I was dead for like a week or so after that but you’ve got to do what you’ve got to do like what Buddy did what you did what I and Bill would have done touring. That’s Mike. That’s why touring is so grueling. And that’s another thing, you know, I did very small, you know, gigging around the tri-state area and, you know, the East Coast. And I realized right away that like that lifestyle wasn’t wasn’t for me. I was having a hard time just with, you know, the small schedule. And, you know, some of these these bands, they tour, they do 200 shows a year. I mean, do do the math, you know, it’s it’s insane. You know, we’re on I think this is the 17th, maybe the 16th or 17th Master Trader Program. Yeah. And you know, in that amount of time, you do that many, you’re bound to have some something go wrong in one of them, you know, with your health, you know, or somebody’s health. I had I had another time where I was sick, too, and I had a 103 fever and was just I mean, I was wasted and I had to do it. And the whole time I was sneezing and coughing and taking medication in between and everybody was just really just, you know, so apathetic for me. They’re just saying, “Man, we’re so sorry you have to do this.” But I said, “Yeah, well, there’s no way this isn’t happening. You we have people that traveled from 60 countries, you know, there’s we have to do it.” You know, there is there is a point of no return where Yeah. you cannot cancel it and and you just you have to do it. I mean, and the same thing happened recently. Funny, the first chart school and then the last chart school. So, the Chuck and I when I came back to IBD a couple years ago, Chuck and I did a online chart school and I got COVID right before it real bad and I was but we had all the people the the workers at uh the the staff at work that were going to be helping out. We promoted it and it was just going to be Chuck and I and there wasn’t a fill in for it and Chuck couldn’t do the whole thing and nor could I have done the whole thing. So, it was a joint thing and I had COVID and I just tried to play it off. Like people can watch the video cuz it’s it’s available and I was so sick. The moment it was over, I went straight to bed, man. And I was like, it was the it was a bad COVID experience and some co Hey, I meant to I meant to ask you. Sorry to interrupt, but you do realize this is two hours and 35 minutes. Oh, we should probably wrap. It’s gonna be a two-part. No, no, no. We we will we will they want to do a two-part. No, no, no, no. We we will wrap this this up now. Are there any I’m not saying I’m not saying that I need to leave. I I can talk with you for hours, but I just I don’t know if anybody’s going to stay for two hours and 35 minutes. Well, no. We found people after an hour they start to lose interest and after an hour and a half we kind of, you know, Yeah. kind of weed them out. That’s true. I think for you people are going to stick around to to watch what you have to say with that. What are some final parting words that you have to say to the folks so we can wrap this puppy up? And thank you so much for uh for doing this. It was so much fun for me, man. Well, I I’ve done thousands of interviews over the over the years. Definitely many many many many hundreds if not thousands of interviews. I’ve done thousands. I’d say you extracted the most and best information out of me out of anybody in the 43 years. And I just think that’s because you are we’re very at, you know, we’re very akin on our level of trading and our and our our ages and our what we like with music and just having that sort of all those things that, you know, we both share. I think made it so easy to just go through topics and questions and have them all be really cool and fun and and uh yeah, I mean you this is probably the best interview I’ve ever done. So as far as I’m concerned that means so much to me. You’re welcome back anytime and we could do charts or whatever, talk music, whatever, man. You you’re you’ve got an open door open door policy here, man. So yeah. Yeah. We’ll we’ll do we’ll definitely do it again. Absolutely. And I’m I know everybody wants to hear about stocks and stuff from me. That’s we can we’ll do that. We could do that next time. Yeah. You know, I mean, look, you and I are available for stock stuff. If they want it, they can find it. You know, like you said, you’ve got your website. If they’re interested in your stuff, they can go and find you. And I thought this would be a fun way for folks to see another side of you other than here’s the VCP and this is where you buy it and you got to put your stop here and and all that stuff. It’s super important, but I think people getting to know the rest of you. Thank you for being so open and honest and and just being a great thing. I I think it’s on a few of us, yourself, myself, and a few other people to to carry on what Bill left behind and and not leave it as is. just like what you were saying about what Bill took what several people before him and and he took it to forward but combine those and you know we’re both doing the same thing. Well, I think it’s you asked you know for advice partying advice. I think it’s really valuable to go beyond you know just the nuts and bolts of trading. I I I tell I tell the story all the time or or talk about what was really important for me that got me to where I am and that was when I studied Paul Tudtor Jones when I studied Bill O’Neal and I studied these people. I studied their trading at first but what really got me to understand what I needed to know and what to do was I started studying the man. I I really that’s why I know you you see I I know a lot about Bill O’Neal and I didn’t work at I didn’t work at O’Neal in company I for someone who didn’t work there I have I know a lot about Bill O’Neal and because I studied the man you know I studied the I know a lot about Paul Tudtor Jones these people who were my mentors I can tell you so much about what they did what how they lived what how they thought the thinking is more important than anything how that person thinks and approaches things and that’s why I wrote a mindset book is I wanted people to understand not only how I think but how champions and winners and successes think because you can have all I can teach you everything and if you don’t have the confidence and you don’t have the self-esteem and you don’t have the the mindset the growth mindset it’s going to it it it’s not going to work you’re not going to get the big success because you have to feel deserving and you there’s a lot of things that that are well beyond just buying breakouts of cup with handles and so you’ll self-sabotage yourself and and that was a poverty mindset cuz I I did that. I self-sabotaged myself. And I finally realized, you know what, you’re your own worst enemy and you’re making a lot of mistakes and they’re they’re because there’s deep-seated things going on there that you’ve got to deal with. And so that’s what I did and I started studying it. I modeling stocks. I started modeling people and and say how does Bill O’Neal think? What are his values? And by modeling those values, then other things started happening more easily. I was able to do the the the uh you know the the the the actions they weren’t now uh in contrast to my thinking. The thinking and the actions were aligned. [snorts] So and that’s I would tell everybody, you know, my if you haven’t read my mindset book, you really should because it’s an amazing amazing book that’s helped people all around the world. Well, that’s that’s a wonderful way to end things and uh thank you so much, man. Until next time, peace out, brother. Yeah, same to you. It was awesome. I knew it would be and it was even better than I thought and it’s just really great, man. Let’s Let’s do it again. Okay.