What Drives Sajjan Jindal Ambition Risk And Building Jsw

TITLE: What Drives Sajjan Jindal? Ambition, Risk & Building JSW | Uncovered Podcast CHANNEL: Uncovered with Suketu Shah URL: https://youtu.be/50SpPs3Apqw

---TRANSCRIPT--- Like Prime Minister Modi, he’s a big picture man. I believe that I am one of the very few chosen ones.

J.R.D. Tata was there, Aditya Birla was there at that time. If these guys can make it so big, I’m much better than all three of them. I’m never going to retire, so you have a problem. I told my son specially a huge credit I give uh of whatever I’ve done in my life uh to Mumbai, city of Mumbai. My ambition is to become number one steel producer in the world. [music] What do you remember as some of the learnings that you had when you were a child? So, and from your parents? Yeah. So, um you know, a a large family has its huge advantages. No, now we we don’t have. We I have three kids, which is also like a large Like the Indian Yeah. Yeah. So, um um my kids uh all three of them are now married. So, um so uh at that time, you know, in living in a joint family with nine of us, and then my uncle, he had three, four kids. And so so, you know, we were then my cousins, my dad’s cousins, their kids, we were all friends like, you know, growing up together. So, what the biggest learning in a joint family is to um you know, to give uh or to share. Right? So, we we learn to share. We it’s not that it’s everything in anything came it’s mine it’s mine, right? No. You you have to share. If we had fruits, everybody will share. If suppose uh in the mango season, I’m talking about then, you know, 50 maybe 55, 60 years ago. Uh uh Hisar, you know, the fruits would be only seasonal fruit, and would come uh would be very rare. So, if let’s say a mango comes home, couple of mangoes would come or whatever, um then we will all share. My mother will make sure that we all share, brothers and sisters. You learned sharing. Yeah, so you learn sharing. Yeah, you know orange season, oranges how to also get along, how to sort of negotiate with family members because, you know, if you’re if you’re selfish, you’re not going to survive. They’re going to You cannot survive. You They will also Because everybody will put you on a side. Yeah, you have to be part of part and parcel of the group. Yeah, that’s a that’s a huge learning. In today’s time in in in a nuclear families, you know, the kids are you know, they find it difficult. And especially those who have single children, I think it’s very sad actually. I feel very sad if you are a single kid, you have no sibling to to you know, go back to or as a support system. So, what were your dreams at that time when you were growing up and you were still in Hisar? Maybe you’d still not gone into engineering school yet, you’d not left home. What What did you think you wanted to be? A just a you know, somebody like your father, a business leader? Yeah, actually I don’t remember No great burning desire A huge credit I give of whatever I’ve done in my life to Mumbai, city of Mumbai. Because this is yeah, because this is an amazing amazing city. I have I’ve lived in Delhi, Hisar, Delhi and then Mumbai and Bangalore. So, these are the four cities I’ve lived. But you know, nothing can can be as amazing or as how should I call it than Mumbai. Energizing. Energizing. And yeah, so as a when I just came in, you know, I met in Vallabh Bhansali. If you I don’t know if you know him. Vallabh Bhansali is the founder of Enam. Enam, yeah. And he was we were young. He He’s like little bit older than me, maybe I don’t know how many years older, but but you know, we were we were he used to meet me and and we were young. So, you know, we used to spend time and so he used to tell me that you know, you have to He is a very you know, pocha hua. Yeah. I’m like a small town kid. Sab chalta hai idhar udhar, you know, but he was very very organized, very systematic. So, you he told me that Sajjan, if you want to do well in life, you come with me. I’ll take you somewhere. I said, “Okay.” So, he took me to Reliance AGM. Wow. Annual general meeting. And so, I said, “Why I I’m not a public company? What are you What Why are you taking me?” So, I got a real shock to see what’s you know, then I went to then on my own I went to Hindalco’s board meeting AGM. Then went to Tata Steel AGM. JRD Tata was there. Aditya Birla was there at that time. And then like I started to my ambition started to kick in, you know, that I why can’t because I I said, “If these guys can make it so big, I’m much better than all three of them.” Wow. [laughter] Yeah, really. I said, “They are not engineers. I mean, Aditya Birla was engineer. They are not you know, they look much more ordinary than me. I I look much better than them. I’m more fitter. I have more energy. I you know, I have four three more brothers with me who who are you know, equally good. So, you know, I really thought that our group can be something different. We have to be different.” So, I went to my father. First, I spoke to my older brother. He said, “Ah, good idea.” I said, “We should go public as a company. We must list our company. We must grow big. We must make it like huge. And what the hell, you know? So So then I went and spoke to my my older brother. And my brother said, “Yes. Yes. I agree.” Then Ratan was was the finance guy in our company in our group like at that time, you know, when we were all kids. It’s It’s like that, you know? My older brother was projects guy. He would build new projects. Ratan was finance. And I was just entering. So So then I told Ratan also. So Yeah, both of all three of us went to dad. Dad, we need to go public. And we need to make make it big. We need So my dad said, “But we are very big. We are doing very well. Look, Hisar may itna achha hai, sab kuch hai. Kya Kya problem kya hai? Kya cheez ki kami hai? What do you want to achieve?” So then I had to explain about Reliance, about Tata Steel, about He He said, “Leave them, no. You We Are we not happy? Are we not doing well? Why Why you are” So but then we had little argument with him over dinner. And at the end of the dinner, he said, “Okay. If you three agree, I have no problem. Let’s go.” Naveen was still very young at that time. So So theek hai. So that’s how we we started to create ambition, believe in the ambition, believe in building big stuff. And that’s how things in the business changed from there on. So So give a lot of credit to Mumbai because of the the the thing that Mumbai has. You know, the the whole ethos the culture of the energy here in this city. And And every in in those days, now things have changed. Those days, Mumbai, everything was mega. Even those days, okay? Delhi was like a small town from business perspective. You know, anything in Delhi people think would do you know, not not from a governance point of view, Delhi was very very poor. Mumbai was even those days was very high. Shareholders were all here, stock markets were here. You know, so this was the city. Who mentored you? Now, one is of course Vallabh taking you around and showing you and explaining, but I don’t know if anybody really mentored you. Did you have any one mentor or anything or just learned because you famously, you know, you talking about you you don’t maintain a diary. Okay. And you don’t make any notes. The other day I had our common friend Harsh Mariwala who as you know, he’s meticulous. He makes all his notes and he’ll file it away and he’ll look at it 5 years later if he’s meeting somebody, he will he will have access to it and he’ll remember. Okay, and you famously don’t have any of that. So, from this small company Okay. which you built up and we’ll actually come to Jindal Vijaynagar and then to your journey there on you actually created this this whole empire where you are known for your execution skills. You have amazing execution. You have amazing teams that you’ve been able to build up. You you’re able to raise mega finances. Okay, because you’re investing I don’t every year 75,000 crores or and the figures keep changing and growing only. So, where did you learn all this that you could be, you know, so organized and and in your companies and without a scrap of paper and without having anybody mentored you? No, so I actually, as I said, grew up watching my dad. Right. So, my dad was also not very not very like me. You know, I I keep any papers. My dad never had any diary or any paper. He would tell his secretary that I should take care of the general at that point to let them know about the matter at that time. Like that. I am also very similar. I’ll tell my secretary that you know, nowadays because of the WhatsApp I just if somebody is inviting then I’ll just forward it to my secretary that you know, please remember that this this event is there. So while growing up so so in business you know, sorry, what was the question? I I lost the thread. how did you learn Yeah. the the to to create an organization. Uh No, it is like so so so my real mentor is my father. In in that respect, you know, I I watched him very closely and also then when I moved to Mumbai I watched him from a distance. So he was a real mentor and so he was and he always believed in because we are four of us. So brothers and sisters of course, but sisters were not in business. So we brothers so my father gave us tremendous independence. Whatever I wanted to do he allowed me to do. Which is absolutely unbelievable, you know, otherwise the the old man or the main guy tries to control, you know, and especially if you’re four. So but he just allowed me to do whatever I wanted, allowed my older brother do whatever he wanted, Ratan, Naveen. And we we all have excelled because of my father because my father gave us this exposure and told us to take risk. Don’t worry about the risk. And you know, I have this very famous thing that I say that we have Hisar. If something goes wrong I will pack up my bags and go to Hisar. You know, that’s my like like safe haven. Like my you know, so because Hisar we feel so comfortable. Everything is there. Everything everybody is our our person. Hisar has given so much to our family. It’s unbelievable. You know, so we we really feel very very comfortable in Hisar. So, so therefore we can take a lot of risk. When I was building Vijayanagar, you know, there was a time when the technology failed and there was a complete collapse. And No, I was You were right there. Yeah, yeah, we used to travel together and because you were also building your factory right next to it. So, but but you know, Suki, not even once I had this feeling in me that I will collapse. I will fail. I never thought. I had this huge uh strength or huge support system of my father, my brothers. Then I thought I will never fail. I obviously we brothers wouldn’t wouldn’t monetarily wouldn’t want to get from each other because then you are like you feel, you know, a little low in the family. Huh, you you don’t want to If if you have a problem, you’ll go to them and you say, “I don’t want your money, but I just want your emotional and other support.” Correct. Exactly. otherwise there’s a problem. Otherwise there’s a problem. You’re taking away from somebody else’s company and it’ll have impact on that. Exactly. Exactly. So, they are also growing. They also need a lot of capital. So, so then obviously they will not say no, but but then it is a little, you know. So, none of us has Every one of us have gone through difficult periods and everybody does. But all four of us have gone at different times into But but the the the the best part in our thing is that growing when we were growing the businesses that we supported each other. At whoever got into difficulties, the other brothers supported. So, that has really That is a very big strength of our that that is there in our family. No, but I still want to stay for a moment. You know, you take very big risks. Okay? You took the risk that you’re talking about uh when you built this Jindal Vijayanagar steel plant the in fact it’s a the side story which I’ll I’ll try and come back to but you you chose a new technology. Okay. So you had this driving ambition. I want to set up this plant and you chose it which nobody else in India at that time had chosen those it was only the second plant in the world. It actually very similar to my own family story also of choosing new technologies which nobody else the electric arc furnace Yeah, yeah. way back way back at that time continuous casting and the EOF then First caster was in Mukund I think first caster in India yeah. second or third in the whole world Oh, wow. completely different technology yeah lots of risk. So we also learned how to take risk but you took a mega risk but even now you continue to set up very large projects and you do it but you say you have no fear You have no fear of failure. You have no fear of you know of it doesn’t come to you at all. No. No. No, I What gives you that strength or that confidence? No, I I think the the word fear or failure is part of not part of me. Is No, I mean I don’t want to say it in a way that I don’t want to sound arrogant about it. But we when we were growing up that it it it was somehow it never came into us. You were not brought up with fear. Uh not brought up with fear. So you you fall you fall you get hurt you get up you you just exactly the whole attitude is of of moving forward always. There’s there’s a concept in in in life called fail forward. Uh So you fall you fail you get up and you move forward. yeah. And you don’t That is what my father teaching or not my father never taught us anything. He never told us to do this and don’t do this. Never said like that. But we just followed him. We just we saw him. He’s riding a horse. Okay, that’s a good idea. We’ll ride a horse. He will not tell me that you ride a horse. But there will be another horse. So you Naveen is a polo player, you know, he’s got now hundreds of horses because he loves polo. But that’s that is in in in our family. We we don’t have that fear. You know? So that to me is a very big lesson to to everybody is it really not to not to have fear and not to fear failure cuz that is the most paralyzing thing. Suki, that happens when you are born because we were nine of us. So we didn’t have this overprotective environment around us. Okay? If we uh we go and play cricket and a ball hits and it’s bleeding, it’s okay. You know, you won’t believe it, Suki, on one Diwali, Naveen, my younger brother, he was very young. He was probably 15, 14 at that time. So he lit a bomb. He put a can on top of it and lit it. You know how remember? And it’ll make a nice noise and go up and go up. So So the bomb busted too soon and this can cut his hand like this. You know, a big cut, huge cut. He didn’t tell anyone. He took the car at 15 or 16 or 14, I don’t remember. He knew how to drive. He drove the car to our hospital which is like 2 km away, 3 km away. He drove to that hospital, got the stitches done Diwali day. We were we are still cracking our crackers on in the other side of the garden and this fellow was on this side and he got the stitches done, put a tape on it and came back. This is like me. Came back then everybody asking where is we call him Bantu. Where is Bantu? Where is Bantu? My mom is asking. My dad is asking. We are Then suddenly the watchman said the server has gone to the hospital. Why? Why? He came. My mom gave him a slap. [laughter] Give a slap that you went. You got cut. You are stupid. You are this. You are that. There was no There was nobody who was sympathetic towards him. My sisters were. Then my one sister just took him and took him away from my mother. My mother was so angry. So So that is the environment we we grew up. And that is why we are very rough and tough. We don’t care. Now my my grandkids they are so overprotected. Yes. So I keep telling my daughters, my son, “Hey, let let them fall. Let them fall. The more they will fall, the better they will become.” You know? Yeah. Otherwise, you know, one servant is this side. One servant is that. Oh, “Hey, hey, he will fall. Hey, hey, he will fall.” Yeah. Oh, man. Yeah. You know? So I I try to give a lot of uh this thing. You don’t You give advice to your children. I do. Huh? Not too much, but very little. Very very rarely I give advice. Because that was one of my things that I wanted to ask you about is that what is it that you have taught your children you think? Cuz you talked about your father and the influence that he had. What about you and your children? Is there things that you’ve consciously tried to teach them and what do you think you’ve unconsciously taught them? No, so I um seriously follow uh my my father’s way of doing things. I really I really think that my father was a real institution and whatever um you know, he how he brought us up. Like when I got into business, so he uh never you know told me that you do this and don’t do this. And he gave me a separate business and he told me that you know this factory in Mumbai when I when I was moved to Mumbai that this factory is not making money yet, but it has a lot of potential. If you work hard, you can turn it around. If you turn it around and make money, then you can grow your business. Otherwise, you I will you know take care of your day-to-day living and but that’s about it. So he had put given given me the business and told me to that this is it. So what have you done with your kids? So my my daughters and my son, I’ve told them that whatever you want to do, I will support you. I will I will help you to establish that. But thereafter, you have to work hard. You have to grow that business. You have to take it to a different level. You know, otherwise I I will I’m doing my own business. I’m I’m pretty young. I still feel that I have many years to go and I’m not going to retire at all. I will retire the day I really retire. You know, yeah. When I retire permanently, that is the day I will retire. So I’m not never going to retire. So you have a problem. I told my son specially that you have a problem that you know I’m I’m always going to be there and running my business. So don’t think that you will inherit my business very easily. By the time you will also be in your 60s or maybe even yeah, let’s say 60s. So So therefore, why wait for me? Grow your own business. So but they all three of them have a lot of fire in their belly. They want to do they want to So what are the things that you would like to say to them but you know we sometimes hesitate as parents not to give too much of gyan to children. So it’s not worthwhile giving them too much gyan because they are also very smart, very intelligent. But I’m like friends with my kids. You have open conversation. Yeah, very open. Which which I did not have with my father. But with my kids I have a lot of open conversation. That’s what I I believe. I don’t know what my kids believe, but I I I do have. Business is something that you are very passionate about. You actually actually love business. The idea of creating businesses it it’s like it’s like I can see it. You and I were together a few days ago. We were together in China and we went to we started out the previous night. We were up late because of the the chairman of a company who was hosting a dinner for us. So we were up till 12:00 1:00. Went to sleep by 6:00 we were up 7:00 we were in the train and whole day and it’s we were out seeing things. We went and sat and saw this autonomous vehicle. This This is the future of transport urban transportation where you sit in a drone which is powered by these Small electric motors and it’s an unmanned vehicle. There’s no pilot. You sit in it alone. It’s already pre-programmed and it just takes off vertically and it goes and it drops you wherever it’s supposed to drop you. You know, in in 3 minutes 5 minutes you cross the whole city. Yeah. You know, and that’s what you’re doing. So we did all that. We did some other thing that 7:00 in the evening we’re returning and he says I’m so excited. I am I’m ready to work another 10 hours. I say, “Where do you get this energy from? So where do you get this energy from? Where do you get this drive?” You’re actually like a child, you know, who’s got a new toy. Every time you have a new company, a new project they’re just brimming with enthusiasm. So you know, Suki, what I what I feel that the time is see one is India. You know, we are so fortunate that we were born in India. We are building India. We are part and parcel of this country and and we are helping it to build. Whatever we are putting our contribution to build it, right? And I believe that I am one of the very few chosen ones by the almighty who has the ability and the caliber to to make a difference to this nation, to our country. So, that’s my inner inner feeling. It’s not true, but it’s my inner feeling. I live with that feeling, with that feel. That’s what drives you. That’s That’s what drives me. That I feel that, you know, I have to do this. I have to do that. So much to be done. I want to be It’s not the money. Not the money. Money, my father left enough. You So, you’re talking about From that time you could have survived and been happy in in Haryana and That’s what my father said, “No, this factory is there. This is giving so much money. What do we do? What do you want to do?” So, then what is your ambition? Ambition is to become number one steel producer in the world. Ambition is to do that. From India. From India. Yeah, that’s the ambition. Whether we do it or not, that’s okay. But I I talk I’ll tell this to all my people, all my team that we If we are going to do it, then let’s be number one. What’s Why not? We have got everything. We have got the market. We have got people. You know, it’s it’s an amazing And if the Chinese can do it, why can’t we? Yeah, exactly. and being number one in the world, okay? So, I think that’s one. Then, you’re in power in a very big way, both renewable and thermal and hydro. You’re in infrastructure, in ports. Um you’re now getting into defense, okay? And AI-related uh technologies in defense. You’re getting in You’re um You’re now with your favorite new projects, if I If I’m right, is cars. And that’s what I said, there’s no excitement that I see in you more than cars. You love You love doing that. Is that Is that something Have I got it right? Absolutely, yeah. Car is something which, you know, I was very passionate about since my childhood. Um in fact, when I was a kid in my summer summer break, like I was maybe 12 13 year old, in my summer break I did make a in because we had We were living just across the factory. So, summer break those days there were no TVs, there were no video games, there was nothing. So, my father had got me this aircraft this model What do you call that? Air modeling. Aero modeling, no? So, we used to fly that aircraft. So, we used to spend the whole summer break doing that. And then I also made a small car uh with the help of the local you know, engineers. Not engineers, we call them mistries. So, you know, using the pump pump sets and all and made a small car. And I I used to drive that. So, me and my cousin, my uncle’s son. So, you have had this passion for cars since then. since since my childhood. So, you you have a very big ambition for what you want to do in cars. Yeah. So, you know, so I I’m So, my my belief is that, you know, um like since post-independence, there has not been a single Indian uh entrepreneur or Indian company which has made cars post-independence. Means they were all earlier than like you know, Tatas and Mahindras are pre-independence. And and also Ambassador and Fiat were pre-independence and they they of course now no more. They don’t produce any more cars, but uh Tatas and Mahindras are still going strong. Uh but they are So, so last 70 years, 75, 80 years Maruti, Hyundai, and all German, Japanese, Korean So, no no new Indian No Indian company has Yes. entered the entered this auto business. Yes. And that really like surprises me that why this has happened and why and you know it’s a big business. Auto is an amazing business. It’s so I it’s really I can’t understand even today that why nobody has entered. So but so so this would be so but it’s very exciting and why I chose now to do it. Last 4-5 years I’ve been working on it. I’ve been actually working on it for 10 years. Since this Tesla thing started to bring electric cars and Chinese were already doing the electric cars. I thought that this was a great moment to get into India to manufacture electric cars because India depends on imported fuel. Crude oil comes from Middle East and all over and now we are seeing power of the problem. Havoc yeah. So so I thought that and whereas electricity is available in India. We have our coal, we have enough sunlight, we have wind, everything is there hydro. We have enough electricity of our own. So why so why we want to bring why why we want to rely on imported stuff. Let’s let’s make it India. That’s how I started to work on this. Then COVID hit and and then I my ambition got fizzled out because I thought that now COVID hit so now I don’t know what will happen. So post COVID I restarted to looking at it and and and then this opportunity came to acquire this MG which we did. I didn’t waste even a single day. I just said okay done. Whatever price you want I’m willing to pay. I want to get into the automobile business. And from MG I learned a lot how how the cars are made, what are the issues, what are the technologies. And then now JSW cars will come up this year sometime end of this year. Yeah, again your audience may not know this so Sajjan is going to not only is JSW MG which is what we are talking about but setting up his own company called JSW Motors and also that’s into electric cars. They’ll have other variants of that, but I believe that you’re also coming up with trucks and buses which are electric. So, that’s another great move that you’re making in this space. Yeah. You know, the major consumption of oil or fuel oil is by trucks followed by buses and then the cars. So, that’s why trucks and buses also I want to really change the narrative or change the way Indian automobile industry works. So, so I really want to push this electric and make it super successful and then everybody will follow and that’s what I might my belief is. Will we be able to develop the technologies? Today we are dependent on the Chinese right now for whether it’s batteries and and other we are we are really working on to localize and indigenize the technology and then we will and localize all the components including batteries. Cells at the moment are a little difficult to develop the technology, but a lot of effort is going on right now to to manufacture the cells in India. So, which which in my opinion in next couple of years it will it will happen or or maybe 5 years it’ll happen. So, so therefore we have to learn from China and and then beat Chinese in in their game. Like we can be 1/10 cost of the Chinese. That is that is the thing that I believe that we can do as Indians because we have also we are also a very phenomenal country. We have amazing young our young generation is so so amazing that they are so smart. They are hard working. They are you know, they are they are less than none. Like they are like amazing. So, so but we have to give them the right environment right things. So, I can see what China has done in last 30 35 years we can we can do in the next 20 years. So, where China is today, maybe we can be there in 15 years time. This is what I believe and I feel that So, I I get very encouraged when I go there. I get so much energy as you were mentioning, but that’s that’s it that’s a real thing. I get so much energy going there because I feel that we can do that. You know, for example, China every city is connected by high-speed train, right? Why we can’t do in India? Now, government of India has recently announced that they are going to connect Hyderabad to Chennai, Hyderabad to Bangalore, Bangalore to Chennai. 12 such sectors they have announced, which is absolutely phenomenal. I mean, you have to give credit where it is due. Like Prime Minister Modi, he’s a big picture man. You know, when he announced Mumbai-Ahmedabad bullet train, at that time there was a lot of criticism that where do we have 1 lakh crore? Why are we spending on this? We should do. But, you know, that one small sector of 500 km or 700 km will will change India. Will will will propel the whole setting up of of these industries related to trains and the amenity of high-speed connectivity of goods and people and it just changes the economy. Yeah, yeah, just changes, yeah. Why Mumbai was What Mumbai was Mumbai because of the the the local trains? You know, Mumbai became so disciplined or so organized when I came to Mumbai first, I saw that, you know, in front of a bus stand, bus stop, people are in a queue. I came from Hisar and Delhi where there was no concept of queue. So, I was I used to I would really wonder. Amazing. What Same Indian people, but here they’re in a queue. In in Delhi, everybody is jostling because I was in studying in Bangalore at that time. So, we would jostle and get into the bus. Right? But, here everybody is waiting their turn to come otherwise that new next bus will come. So so yeah so China that is the that is why I go to China to see the future of India. Yeah you go you get ideas you come back and you implement And implement and then I send my team all the time. I send so many team I have guest houses in in Shanghai in other cities in Guangzhou. So I just send my people all the time that go see what’s happening learn learn construction construction technology how they approach things and yeah something but it’s something that you know you love to learn and you love to get new ideas and so you and you’re constantly doing the other you so when we went in this drone you thought why not we do this drone so you’ll do it. Huh? Yeah why not? I don’t know I mean but but as a thought it’s a good thought because it’s the future somebody will do it. So either I will do it or I’ll support someone to do it it’s a it’s a it’s it’s going to be the future. So it is you for the joy of creating I am creating what that’s who I am. Yeah I love it you will love it I just love it I just just love creation I just love new factories new technologies new areas of doing things expanding global scale. I just love it for example the other day I visited my factory which is coming up in Sambhaji Nagar in Aurangabad. This new car factory. Like I was so thrilled to see what is happening there the youngsters are building it. It is just mind blowing. What do you what do you believe is the role of luck? Uh You know without luck nothing works. The other day somebody said that I don’t believe in luck. You know, luck comes and goes, but it’s but I believe that some There there is something there. I don’t know. Of course I moved to Mumbai. Why? I don’t know. You know? And and that things changed. You know what? Let me tell you the story which I said I’ll come back to Oh, about the Jindal Vijayanagar. And then I have one more question later. Yeah. So, you know, this uh the plant where you set it up, Jindal Vijayanagar, it was called the it earlier it was before that the Vijayanagar steel plant. Correct. Twice it was inaugurated by Mrs. Indira Gandhi. Twice. You know, it was to be a state government enterprise, etc. Then they signed up with somebody else. Then they signed up with us, okay, with Mukand. Mhm. Okay. Uh same project. Yeah. Then they went to for some reason, some change in government, it went to SR. Mhm. Then after after that it came back to us, to again to Mukand. Yeah. Okay. And then again, we were for whatever reasons our attention was on something else that we were trying to do. And then that project came to do came to you. Mhm. And you took it and you grabbed it. So, here is this boy from Hisar, big cut, come to Bombay, not in this industry at all in the sense of you are in rolling Yeah, you’re in stainless downstream. I was downstream. You were and you took this new technology. And and then we talked about it, how it initially didn’t work, and then how you made it work. So, I it has to be some fate and luck and It doesn’t So, that’s what I believe so strongly. yeah. So strongly. There is some things. There is some hand somewhere which is which is helping you to to pass through the difficult days or or give you something. It doesn’t happen just cannot Therefore, one cannot have that arrogance that I have done it. No, not at all. You are just a nimitt. Just yeah, you are just a doer. Somebody is making you do. It’s There are you know hundreds and thousands and millions of people smarter than me. I’m not even not even 1% of the smart people in in India. But but you know I have this you know thing in me which majority people don’t possess. So so you know it’s so this is what So you know when like I was just to give you a little example. I was Sangeeta and me we were going to Tirupati Balaji. Okay. So we were in Bangalore overnight at the Oberoi’s and next day early morning 4:00 we were to drive to Tirupati. So I I check in and the phone rings on my in my those days mobile was there but it came on my landline hotel landline. So the CM that time Mr. Moily Veerappa Moily was the Chief Minister. So his secretary online for me. So so I I don’t know how he got my number which hotel how but anyway he reached me. So I picked up the phone he said CM Mr. Moily would like to have a word with you. I said I don’t know. So I was a young that time so young so I said yes sir please make me speak. He came Mr. Moily came online he said Sajjan I I heard that you are in Bangalore. I said yes sir I’ve just arrived. So he said are you free tomorrow morning for breakfast? I’ll give you a lovely nice idlis. So he’s a very nice guy Veerappa Moily very nice very nice. So so I said uh because 4:00 I was to go to Tirupati. Right? So so but then I said yes sir I will I knew Sangeeta will get a little upset but but I said okay one day we’ll spend more in Bangalore. So then I said yes sir “Yes, I’ll come. He said no no I want to discuss something important with you. So, you come.” So, next day morning. So, I told Sangeeta as she got She said, “No, no, no, we’ll we’ll have one day extra holiday in Bangalore and then we’ll go to Tirupati Balaji.” I said, “Fine.” So, she was happy. So, I went for breakfast. So, then he told me that this Vijayanagar site where still government wanted to build and the many private companies came and couldn’t do it. So, would you be interested in doing?” I said, “Sir, I will be more than And we’ll give you this, we’ll give you that.” Every He promised a lot of things. I said, “Sir, we’ll definitely We were all promised.” Yeah, we were all promised. So, So, I said, “Yeah.” So, this is, you know, this is I call fate. Then I sent my team. So, I was in Bangalore. Then he called me and I went and you know, and the thing started very quickly. Within 1 month I signed the MOU in a big function. I Next In 3 days I called my brother because I was young, so my brother I had called him and then we both flew down to in a helicopter to Vijayanagar, saw the whole place. It was barren land, dry, barren, hot. Hot. So, yeah. So, So, I but but here it is. One of the takeaways from what I would like what I have learned and what I would like uh others to perhaps share and you know, pick up from and learn is your your ability to just look at life first of all with so much of joy. Mhm. It’s not a stress, you know. Yeah, headache or headache stress. I never see you having stress. So, that’s one great thing, you know, just not having stress and actually enjoying what God put you on this earth, which is to enjoy Enjoy it. every moment. So, I believe that human Yoni, what is it called? Our what we are now, human, right? This is God’s best creation. Amongst so 84 according to our scriptures, we are supposed to have 84 lakh different like, you know, insects and fly and a bird and a lizard species whatever you call it. 84 lakh. Human is the ultimate. So, you have to enjoy. You have to give back. You have to pray. You have to, you know, ask for moksh. You know, that is why this thing has come. So, you have to enjoy. Why stress? For what? Stress for what? Yeah, I mean, unless you don’t have food for your children at home, which is not the case in India anymore, maybe then you can okay, you can feel a little stress. But then also if you work, you can do it. So, what I’m saying that one should not stress. And and enjoy everything. Enjoy enjoy work, enjoy playing, enjoy family, enjoy holidays, enjoy every moment. Every moment. Every moment. Like I’m talking to you, I’m really enjoying it. I’m enjoying it too. Thank you so much. Once again, I it’s been a truly delightful session just chatting with you, chatting as a friend, getting to know you even more. I already know you a lot, but I think my audience would have been greatly enriched by uh by our conversation, I hope. Yes. And if they pick up even one or two things from what you said, I think uh uh that you know, it’ll have been a time well spent. But it is I have enjoyed it. So. No, no, thank you. Thank you, Suki, for for asking me to do this and I really enjoyed it. And I, you know, I am I am whatever I am I am. Like I talk, I’m very frank and I I believe I don’t I don’t have any um I don’t like to I I I don’t want to hide anything. Whatever it is, it is, right? So, and I don’t have any um other part of me. It’s what whatever it is, it is. So, thank you so much. is what you get. What you get. [laughter] Thank you. Thank you.