The Global Economy Is Changing Heres Why Philippe Gijsels

TITLE: The Global Economy Is Changing. Here’s Why | Philippe Gijsels CHANNEL: Market Insider DATE: 2026-06-27 ---TRANSCRIPT--- The global economy is facing some serious challenges right now with high inflation, conflicts, and the commodities prices going up. Today we sit down with Philip [music] Gezels who’s the chief strategist at one of the largest banks in Europe. He’s talking to his clients [music] to find out what’s happening, what they’re seeing in the economy, where the global economy is headed. Are we going to have more inflation, more conflicts, or things will turn back to normal? Today he’s here to share all of this with us.

This is a world where you do not expect interest rates to move 20 basis points, but to move 200 points. This is not the world where you expect [music] copper to to move 20 or 30%. But to double, to triple, to quadruple, or something like that. So that’s what we tell clients, expect volatility, expect [music] the unexpected. So you’re recommending for people to borrow and invest in hard assets if they can. Absolutely. Absolutely. I’m Siamak. Welcome to Market Insider. [music] Philip, it’s great to have you on. Welcome. Thank you. Thanks for having me. You’re the chief strategist as one of the biggest banks and the largest bank in Belgium and you guys have a footprint across the globe with a 180,000 employees in 64 countries and you’re constantly on the road figuring out what’s going on in the economy by talking to your customers. You also look at economic data and you talk to your colleagues. Can you tell us what you’re hearing from the CEOs as you’re going across the globe? Well, I think there is quite a bit of uncertainty at the moment because quite a bit of things are happening. You have the geopolitics, you have the impact of AI. They all try to figure out the economy and I think depending on where they are in the economy, when they’re related to how we talk about the key the K-shaped recovery where you have the the leg that goes up, where everything is like with AI and semiconductors and of and yeah, and then there are people who do very well, so they’re optimistic. And then the long part of the K, the the the thing that shapes down, well, there is way more uncertainty. So, I think it’s it’s very difficult to talk about the world economy or the American economy or the European economy. It is really two speeds. One thing that’s doing very well and one thing that’s way more complicated. And I think when you talk to people, depending on where they are, you hear that you hear the difference. And can you tell us what you’re hearing from the ones that are doing well? Well, I think the thing is a lot of it’s real, basically. And when you talk to to tech experts, because there is always this big question, is there a bubble, is there no bubble, will it last, will it not last? And most people agree on the fact that if you look at valuations, if you look at the price earnings, for example, it’s reasonable. If you look at Nvidia, for example, forward earnings for next year, it’s about 20 times. So, that’s way, way below it was at the end of the ’90s with the internet bubble. So, in that sense, there is clearly no no bubble going on. But PE you can divide in P and E. And the question is how sustainable these earnings are. And then some people say, “Yeah, you cannot keep building uh more and more data centers. So, at a certain moment it will slow down or even stop, and then you get into trouble.” And then there are others that are saying you’re not even optimistic enough because we see shortages as far as the eye can see. Uh we see uh demand that we cannot meet. We cannot increase production capacity. There is uh shortages in in in rare earths and commodities and energy and chips and everything. Uh and and they’re extremely optimistic. So, it’s in two camps. I’m a little bit in the middle. I really want to have an open mind to this because I think AI and and innovation is one of the biggest events that that we have seen for generations, maybe ever. So, so I think it it would be a mistake not to go along with it. But of course, we should not be blind to the risks that are clearly there as well. What about the other side of the K? Is it everybody else that’s not in AI that’s sitting on that side of K? And And how are those companies doing? They are suffering to a certain extent. And then, if you want to to to put a metaphor on it, then fortunately there are the people who don’t have a job. Or otherwise, they do three jobs to to to get to the end of the month. And they rent today typically cannot buy or afford a house. And they’re not invested in the stock market. So, the problem is if an asset prices go up, the upper part of the K benefits greatly. And the the the bottom part of the K, if I can call it like that, uh they’re suffering. And of course, they’re unhappy. And then, they vote in uh more extremist parties and so on. That’s something you see around the world. Uh back in the UK or back of the neighborhood, I would say, another crisis in the government. So, that’s very typical. Now, what you hope for, and then that’s that’s maybe more a hope than than a prediction, but eventually, uh if this AI thing goes on and and and we reap all the the benefits and all the efficiency gains that people are promising us, well, also the other side of the K will start to benefit. And then, the companies in the stock market that do not so very well, I’m talking about maybe the McDonald’s of this world or everything that’s related to the housing market, which is suffering, will also have its day in the sun. And and normally, this should create benefits for everyone. And this would probably, I hope, also create a more balanced stock market where it’s not only a couple of stocks or or maybe 10, 20% of the stocks that go up in a straight line, and all the rest is not participating. Now, Philip, this K-shape economy, is that across the globe? Or is this cuz we’re hearing about it in US, but it looks like you’re see you have a pulse across the globe. You’re seeing is Are you seeing the same thing? I see the same thing but everywhere to a lesser extent or or another extent probably. So in Belgium for example, we have a system of social security where where the the the focus is very much on redistributing. So it’s it’s it’s more yeah, higher taxes, more more welfare and so on. So you see it here but not the extreme. Then you have countries here where where the government is probably if you look places like America there I would say it’s even more extreme than in the US is if you look to to a country like an Argentina or a country like a Mexico. I think the key shape to the key the key is even larger and and more pronounced than in the US basically. But it’s a global phenomenon. We have a global economy to a certain extent. So I think yeah, that it’s a bit of everywhere and it it also explains why the political situation and and the the the unhappiness with the growing part of the population is something we see a little bit worldwide at the moment. What do you think is the root cause of it? How did you think we end up here? Well, that’s that’s a very good question. In our book The New World Economy, we we refer to the book by Neil Howe, The Fourth Turning is Here, which is a fantastic book that I can highly recommend. And then basically he says we go to this phase every 80 years or so. So this is about the sixth fourth turning in the last 500 years. Previous one was the Second World War. The one before that was the American Civil War. And then you have to go back to the UK because the US is still very young at that moment. Another 80 years back and then you go to the War of the Roses, the Glorious Revolution, the Armada Crisis. So we’ve been here before. So this is in a way generational, but I think and I don’t even think I’m I’m convinced that also everything is happening with AI, the the biggest technological revolution in a very long time is probably a catalyst to to make it even stronger than this side. It would have happened anyway, but add AI to that, which means that you in a Pareto world and all the normal distribution where everything is a little bit around the mean. I really very much in a Pareto world where a couple of of people have almost everything, a large majority has has not a lot of stuff and in the middle there is not a lot either. So, that’s Pareto. And where Pareto used to be 80/20, I would say it’s now 95/5 or 99/1% or something like that. And that creates the world that that we have today. What does this phase look like based on your studies? You wrote a book about this. What what did you predict about what what we’re going to have? Well, what we predicted is that there are a number of of big trends and innovation {slash} AI is is one of them. Uh but the other one are multi-globalization, which is not the same as deglobalization, but it’s more of globalizing around different blocks. It’s not unipolar world anymore where everything turns around the United States, but you have all these different blocks happening. You have demographics, you have the debt problem, and then you have climate change all happening at the same time. And our general thesis is and when we wrote it some more than a year ago when it was published in English, it was a prediction. We said, “Okay, this world will be way more inflationary. We’ll have way higher interest rates, we’ll have way higher commodity prices, and we’ll see a lot of volatility.” And well, yeah, today this is not even a prediction anymore when we look at the world, that’s exactly what we’re seeing. We see the inflation, we see long-term interest rates going up everywhere, and we see big moves to the upside and to the downside. And this is a world where you do not expect interest rates to move 20 basis points, but to move 200 basis points. This is not the world where you expect copper to to move 20 or 30% but to double, to triple, to quadruple or something like that. So, that’s what we tell clients, expect volatility, expect the unexpected and then we can work together to to position in terms of investments but also try to position companies to hedge in a way against all these uncertainty going to happen. But understanding this and knowing that volatility is coming, I think is the first step to do to try to solve it or at least to to work with it. So, Philip, do you think we’re in the beginning of the this stage or and how long is this a stage? Is it is it a 5-year period, 10-year, 20-year? How long does it last? Well, normally a fourth turning is all the always more or less 80 years. So, the previous one was the Second World War. So, add 80 years to that, well, that’s not too far for where we are today. It’s generational. The idea behind is that each and every time you have a very bad situation like the Second World War, people say we’re never ever going to do that again. So, then you start to build NATO, you start to build Europe, you start to build climate agreements, trade agreements, health agreements. So, you make in a way a new social contract and you build a new world. But unfortunately, after 80 years, people who have lived through the previous crisis or or or catastrophe, they’re old age or even dead and then the cycle starts again. Now, I’m going to draw again on on the work of Neil Howe, who is the historian who came up with the concept. He said, “Okay, it does not always have to be 80 years exactly. It can be 90. It can be 60.” But in his mind, we’re in the fourth turning. So, that’s the last 20 years of of this 80-year cycle and for him it started with a financial crisis 2007-2008. So, add 20 years to that and then we’re in 2028. So, we’re not too far to of of the end. He talks more about 2032. too. we’re way closer to the end than to the beginning. That’s good news. The bad news is that typically the the the move from a fourth turning to a first turning again, typically goes together with some sort of and I’m not predicting World War III, but it goes together with with with some very negative catalyst like a war. That could be Taiwan, but maybe that’s maybe too obvious. Normally, it will be a black swan that nobody predicts, but but typically something nasty happens and then people say once again, we’re not going to do that anymore. And then you go to the first turning, but to answer your question, I think we’re way closer to the end than to the beginning of this. We’ve been hearing that a lot of central banks have been printing a lot of money. Do you see inflation taking off from here or do you think we’re we’re kind of towards the end of it? Well, I think inflation is just starting, unfortunately. And then you touch upon a very interesting subject. It’s one of the chapters in our book. And the debt situation is everywhere very dramatic. It’s in Belgium, it’s in France, it’s in Europe, it’s in Japan, also in the United States. If you look at the total debt in the United States, it’s about 39,000 billion. That’s a huge figure. At the moment, your United States pays about 1,200 billion of of interest over that. So, it’s going up fast. If it stays on this track more or less, it could be about 100,000 billion by 2048. And making abstraction of all the other things about the demographics, about the money of to spend for defense, the money that you spend on the climate change, everything, just this debt alone almost guarantees you a world of higher inflation, higher interest rates because there’s no other way out. The only way to keep this debt more or less manageable is deflating it to to make it less valuable in nominal in real terms. So, I think you will be in a world even though central banks will not admit it where inflation will be between two and four instead of about between zero and two. So, between two and four with with some yeah spikes to the upside and if you think about that and that’s what we tell investment clients each and every time, if inflation runs at 4% for 10 years in a row, well, you’re sure certain that in 10 years time half of your purchasing power will be gone. So, that’s the reason that’s one of the main conclusions in our book that we absolutely need to invest in real assets that are equities, that are real estate, commodities, gold, silver, everything and and that’s very hard especially for Belgians. I think for Americans it’s a little bit easier, but for Belgian Europeans we do not like that too much, but if you own some debt and the government deflates away the debt or the value of the debt or the value of your debt decreases as well. So, having a nice piece of real estate or a nice investment portfolio or a collection of old-timers or art of gold or whatever with a loan against it, well, the value of the goods will go up and the value of the debt will will decrease. So, that’s the way with leverage you can make money and then you come back to the K-shaped recovery of course. People on the top side of the K have the possibility to leverage, they have the possibility to to have a loan. People on the bottom side is more complicated and that that once again explains the the inequality that that this creates. So, you’re recommending for people to borrow and invest in hard assets if they can. Absolutely. Absolutely. And also companies. So, when we we talk to we we talk to investors, but also like you said at the beginning we talk to CEOs and so on. They they have to hedge their risk on commodities and on interest rates. When they have a lot of of salary mass, they can hedge their inflation. But, we always say if you have a project, an investment project, between now and the next 2 years, 5 years, and the market gives you an opportunity, and maybe this opportunity is coming because when oil prices are coming down a bit, and inflation expectations come down a bit, it’s possible that long-term interest rates come down maybe 50 basis points or even a little bit more, but not much more. I would grab that with two hands, but I because I think when we talk again in 2 years’ time, inflation will still be at the levels we are today or even higher, and it’s very well possible that interest rates will be also a couple of percentage points higher. So, I would take advantage of every drop of inflation to borrow both on the investment side as on the corporate side. And do you see the real estate price values go up from here even though the interest rates going up? Cuz sometimes people it will make the affordability worse, especially in the US. I don’t know other about other countries, but Well, that’s not I think about mortgage rates in Belgium would be somewhere around 5%, not the 7, 8 that you have, but depends. But, indeed that’s a very good point. When interest rates go up, that’s also something we write in the book. Interest rates are like gravity. When they go up, typically values of real assets are going up less. So, I I can never exclude that indeed when interest rates go up, that that indeed real estate market is suffering a bit. Equity markets is suffering a bit. You see the gold price. I’m a big good bull on gold, but gold is is is also suffering from the fact that that interest rates are going up, so gravity is pulling it down as well. But, in the end of the day, it’s it’s way better than being in cash because in cash you will lose all your purchasing power. So, you will have to accept the volatility in this real assets and they will be volatile and it will not be a walk in the park. But, everything is better than losing 50% of of of of the purchasing power. So, what I typically say to clients and then then they they look at you and they think a bit and after a while they come back and they say, “Ah, maybe you have a point.” It’s in a way not the price of gold or the price of real estate or the price of of equities or companies or commodities or what have you that’s going up. What you see it goes up if you look at it, but basically it’s the value of money that’s declining and that’s the only way for central banks and governments to to keep this very difficult situation, this fourth turning world, a little bit manageable is by letting inflation go go higher and then that’s that’s exactly what they’re going to do. What would it look like after? And when do you think we will turn the corner? So, you mentioned in a few years based on the these predictions and potentially and then what what what’s does it look like on the other side of it? Well, on the other side of it you get always talk about young wizards. My my kids are 20 and then then 22. These are the people that that basically will make the new social contract and they will build a new world. In a way, they will be less I’m Gen X. I’m for them I’m a baby boomer, but everybody is a baby boomer, but baby boomers are my parents, so I’m Gen X. But, Gen X is a is a generation that’s very very focused on itself. Self-development, self-achievement, that kind of stuff. So, there is not a lot of love for the collective. Books that we love as Gen Xers are for example is a best seller Atomic Habits for example. How will the future me look at me in 20 years time? So, that’s a typical subject for a Gen X. If you want something of for about the collective and you go to a bookstore, you will not find it in the window. You can find it in a cardboard box at the end at $5. And that’s where it is. So, when these books about the collective are back in the window, well, you’re almost past this story, I think. So, that’s one way of seeing it. Uh what also goes and now I go a little bit uh esoteric uh religious on you. Uh but but the point is also typically when you have a new first turning, you have some sort of a new religion. And it does not has to be a religion like God or something like that. But very often, it is something uh a new view on the world. And that I think and that’s a very personal view and I have not even written it in our book. Maybe the Yeah. Absolutely. It’s a awakening is a very nice word for it. And I think and but that’s just guessing because I don’t know. But but I would think that it would have something to do with quantum. How we will have quantum computing and so on. But there is also quantum theory. And I think that better understanding of the quantum world will give us new insights about uh the way the world works. Um how we are related because in a quantum world, there are no objects. There are no people. There are only energy flows in a way. And if people start to understand that we’re all connected in a way uh with quantum entanglement and what have you. I don’t want want to get too technical on this. But maybe our view on the world changes, view on the the place that we have in the universe changes. And that’s also something that you typically see in the first turning. So, that that will be it. It will be a time of of optimism again. Uh it will be a time that typical you have strong political leaders that in a way manage to to flow make the flow of energy that’s now negative in society to turn in a way positive. Um and yeah, that’s the way you will see it. What it will do to the economy, I don’t know. I think that it will be inflationary at least for a while, but after a while I think the new technological revolution will also in the book we have the four trends that are really inflationary, but we have the innovation AI quantum that all kind of stuff that’s that’s deflationary. Maybe, but I’m speculating again that will get the upper hand and then yeah, I I think we’ll if if we manage to to do this technological revolution very well without destroying everything, I think yeah, you can do some very some very nice things, but yeah, it will not be too far away. So, it will be in our lifetime still, but then I will be hopefully in a beach bar having a drink watching the the waves and and then that that’s for the kids and our grandchildren that that that built this new this new world, but in a way I’m it makes me extremely optimistic in a Now, you mentioned when this type of transition happens, the phase we’re in it’s it’s kind of we we forgot the lessons we learned from the past. What do you think we forgotten in the in the system? Is it Is it uh printing too much money or solving problems in an easy way, not really doing the hard conversations or is it bigger like we become too selfish? Can you tell us what what you’re seeing in this in this world? Well, that’s that’s more or less a personal question, but I believe it all goes a little bit in the direction of of what what you’re saying. Therefore, I’m I’m a big fan. You see the books a lot of them are history books. So, I’m I’ve been looking at markets and the economy now for more than 40 years, but sometimes your own history, your own memory does not go far enough to to to find reference point in history and that’s what Neil Howe does so very well. He tells us that that this is the sixth time we’re in the same place in the last 500 years, so it’s not unique. It happens very often and indeed maybe we forget the lessons from the past. We are first generation have never experienced luckily a war, so you don’t know what a war is. So so that kind of thing the Weimar Republic if you talk about printing money, the hyperinflation in Germany that led up to the the Nazism in Germany so many years ago. So yeah, you can find that in history books and then so somebody said and then that one of the younger people that sometimes come to the house here and then friends of my kids and so on and they said and then and I did not know what to answer because they were absolutely right. You look in history books, we look to the future and there is where it happens. So but in a way I did not know the answer right away but then I got to bed and I started to think about it and okay, they were already gone so I could not answer anymore but but maybe you should do two things. You should of course look into the future because that’s that’s where things are going to happen. You cannot change the past anymore. But what you were alluding to and I think is absolutely correct, we should also not forget the lessons from the past and it can go horribly wrong. We have seen that in the past many many times. So and this is an environment of fourth turning. We did not predict Ukraine, we did not predict Iran. We do hopefully Taiwan is not going to happen but this is the type of thing you typically expect in a fourth turning. It’s a time of unfortunately conflict but unfortunately also civil conflict, civil wars that the part of the the population stand against each other. and when you look at the the not the Second World War, but the previous fourth turning in the American Civil War, it was not too far from the Mexican War. So, typically, when you have internal struggle, you find or to try to find an external enemy as well. So, unfortunately, these things are very much correlated and I hope I hope I’m not too wrong on the markets because that’s where we try to make our living and try to advance to advise our clients. But sometimes I hope that I’m very wrong on this fourth turning thing because it’s not always a happy story, but I’m a little bit afraid that yeah, this is the way it’s going to be and the longer time passes, the more I get convinced that yeah, this is the fourth turning with all the characteristics that it has. Some of them are hopeful, but some of them are not easy. So, it’s not it’s not a walk in the park, clearly. With all that you’re seeing, what do you recommend to investors? Well, we already touched a bit upon it. So, clearly, own real assets. Make sure that you are hedged for this inflationary world. Try to have some debt. When you have a company, make sure that you have hedged quite a bit of things. In terms of interest rates, inflation, commodity prices and so on. Do not forget this is the largest bull market in commodity the world has ever seen. We have seen a massive two two main reasons. We have seen a massive underinvestment in everything that’s in the commodity space. We have not invested in new mines and new capacity, nothing whatsoever. So, then when you have a big demand push like you have from from AI and all these things, you have shortages everywhere. So, I would not be surprised that the copper price goes way higher than it is today. So, that’s a point and what we have learned, unfortunately, once again with the conflict that we had in the Gulf, that all these commodities are very strategic. So, it means that China will invest very heavily in everything that’s energy related because they know they’re vulnerable over there. The US I think will invest very heavily in everything that’s rare earths and critical minerals because the US knows it’s vulnerable over there. Europe is is looking at it but not doing a a lot of things like that’s usually the case. But but we will come to that as well. So, commodities will be usually important and then I think it’s very important to look through uh volatility. When it happens, it will happen uh very often. So, when when markets go down on a bad afternoon, uh be ready to to to buy some of it and try to have a balanced portfolio. I think that you should think you should be invested certainly in AI because it would be a a mistake to miss that that big trend. But what we propose to clients is to invest in the total ecosystem, not only um the AI companies themselves, but also the suppliers, uh everything that’s energy, everything that’s commodities, and then downstream in the companies that benefit uh in a way uh from AI. And then you get to financial institutions, banks, insurers, then you get to biotech companies, pharmaceutical companies, industrial companies. Uh I’m a big believer in the deindustrialization of the United States. I think quite a bit will come back to the US in terms of production. That will need a lot of electricity. So, everything that’s that’s uh related to energy, electricity generation, the smart grid, battery technology. Well, I I I have uh like I said, maybe you get the impression that I’m negative when we talk about this fourth turning, but on the investment side and all these years I’ve rarely seen uh so many opportunities basically. So, there’s a lot of opportunities for investment right now. And and Absolutely. And in commodities, so you mentioned copper. How much do you think copper could soar from here? Well, uh is already had quite a run when we wrote back our book some more year ago than you wrote the economy in five trends. So, we we talked about gold going to 4,000. Back then it was below two. So, everybody said you’re absolutely crazy. It touched five and a half. Okay, now it’s it’s corrected a little bit because of the higher interest rates, but eventually I think gold could go to 10,000. I think that silver could see 200 plus in the coming years. And then copper is is maybe the the the commodity where you are the most in deficit. And I like commodities and I like metal markets because they’re little bit easier to predict than other stuff. You have on the one hand, of course, you don’t know the world economy is going to be. You don’t know how much China is going to demand. So, the demand side is always a little bit fuzzy, but the supply side is is reasonably easy to measure because we know we need 200 new mines to to to meet the demand, but they’re absolutely not there. So, if you were to say you have all the money in the world, you don’t have to to look at a couple of billion, you put 100 billion or whatever you want, you put in the mining sector, you get a permitting right, you get the feasibility studies right, you do everything right, and if you would do that today, it will still take you about 10 years before you have the first ounce of copper out of the ground. So, the supply is reasonably fixed, the demand is going up, and like I said in there in a in a fourth turning environment, do not expect 20 or 30%, but expect big moves. So, I would not be surprised in the next 5 to 10 years that copper doubles even more once again from here, easily. So, you seem optimistic about the future of the US economy in in this environment. What about China? You mentioned it’s very hard to know what’s going on in China. What are you seeing with China? Well, China is a complicated story and then okay, we have of course some some operations there. So we have some boots on the ground to say, so we we get some view on it, but I think longer term on the technological front, on the AI front and everything that’s biotech, they they will be doing well. They they are they’re on the way to yeah, to becoming a very big power once again, so that’s important. Now, I think China also has quite a bit of challenges going on. It’s not at the moment see for the first. So that there are advantages, but also big disadvantages. You have the point that currently they’re still going to what we call a balance sheet recession. So they have not a lot of social security, so it means that they save a lot. They save even more than Belgians and Europeans and that’s already a lot, but unfortunately they put all the money or a large chunk of it in the real estate market. The real estate market will be hit and then that means that they feel poor and they save even more. They don’t invest a lot and they don’t consume a lot. So that that’s a big problem for the economy. I think eventually the government will also put more money in the system and try to stimulate the economy, but do not forget that also the debt problem in China is quite real. The debt level is also very high. So that’s one issue. A second issue that China clearly has I think is about the demographics. If you look at the fertility rate, they go at 1.2, 1.3 maximum. They had the one child policy for for many many years. So China they finally admit that their population is declining at the moment. So I think that India now has a higher population or India they also see the population is stopping out because their fertility rate is also a little bit below two. It’s not that a dramatic as as China is, but in Europe by the way as well. So many places in the world is happening. So I think that it would be unfortunate to bet really against China, but they have a lot of challenges. Now, if you look at their stock market, it has been a disappointment for for many many many years. And I think that is to do and that’s a very top-down, maybe philosophical, maybe a little bit exaggerated view to it. But for them, social stability, social security, and then and then and then people being more or less happy is is very important. So, what they try to do, I think, is that they the added value that the companies create go to a certain extent to the population. So, it means that they’re less profitable and they’re less interesting to invest in because if you look at companies such as Tencent or an Alibaba or something like that, if you look at the valuations, it’s way lower than it is in in Europe and especially in the US. But I think there’s a good reason for that. So, I I would have some China in the portfolio, but but certainly not to the extent that we have US in the portfolio because in every European uh portfolio, you have a lot of of of US stocks and especially technology stocks because if you want to invest, even though China is doing well, I think in terms of of technology, I think it’s it’s always a safer bet to bet with the US tech companies and that’s something that has worked for the last uh yeah. Forever almost, 20 years or so. What about Europe? Yeah, that’s the question we always fear that you’re going to ask. So, like I said, we have quite a bit of the building blocks. So, we have I hope more or less smart people, good universities, we have capital. But yeah, we still have quite a bit of of job big job to do. Yeah, we do not have a unified capital market. So, our capital market is not as deep as the US. So, therefore, it’s less attractive in certain extent. You have a lot of rules, a lot of regulations. Uh we are not self-sufficient in energy. We are not self-sufficient in rare earths and so on. So, yeah, we have a lot of of to do and I think the main problem that we have is that we like I said we’re good at um doing studies, having uh patents, having IPOs, having startups, but we have and that that’s that’s maybe interesting for for the the listeners and the viewers. We have not created one new company of 100 billion plus the last 30. We have some of them. We have them, but they’re old. So, we have not made a Palantir. We have not made whatever and and that’s an issue because in this world which is Pareto and where the big ones take take almost everything, you should be able to scale up. So, that that’s there we have a lot to do. Now, we are still invested in Europe uh and we have invested even a little bit in US industry and chemicals and so on because okay, they they have a very big disadvantage in terms of energy to compete with the rest of the world, but if you look at the valuation, it’s so low uh they’re almost priced like they’re going to go bankrupt and I don’t think that all the companies in Europe are going to go bankrupt either, but um yeah, I think we have a lot of work to do. Uh everybody knows or a lot of people know what we should do, but knowing what to do and actually doing it is is uh is not always easy. Well, Philip, uh it was great to talk to you. We hope to have you next time in our studio. Philip Geilzus, it was great to have you on Market Insider. Thanks for having me and thanks for the conversation. What do you think about this conversation with Philip? Do you think we’re going to have significant inflation ahead of us? [music] Or do you think things will change and go back to normal soon? Make sure to tell us in the comments. I’m Siamak. [music] This is Market Insider. We’ll see you next time.