Not Just Rss America Misreads India Hosbole At Hudson Institute

TITLE: WATCH: ‘NOT JUST RSS, America Misreads India’, Top RSS Leader Hosbole Hits Back At U.S. CHANNEL: moneycontrol DATE: 2026-04-24 ---TRANSCRIPT--- Really I’m delighted to be a part of this conference since morning. Uh you must have been tired listening to so many people because it’s a quite an academic exercise. I don’t know whether you are tired or not myself I 40 will naturally be there and the whole day you isn’t so many but because it was interesting and educative I was uh attending almost every session fully except for few minutes I’m really thankful ful to Hudson Institute for inviting me to this conference and giving me an opportunity to express about the organization that I represent. I just now introduced to you most of you know about the RS and I’m here to meet some people and interact with them. I also had an opportunity to participate in another conference in Stanford recently about uh science, technology, global health and sustainability and uh had the opportunity to where Bill Draxil was a moderator. So the RSS is uh now has completed 100 years of its uh service to nation and uh society. RSS has uh reached out to vast section of uh people in within the country. We thought it also necessary to interact with the thinking and influencing sections and individuals of other countries particularly the western countries where America naturally needs. So I had the opportunity of uh interacting with some of the influential opinion makers and also some think tanks and this uh global outreach has helped me to communicate what RSS really means and what it’s doing. So I’m really happy that uh here in m of you I’ll be expressing certain things in the form of answers to some questions.

Great. Well, thank you um Mr. General Secretary. Uh it really is uh great to welcome you to Hudson Institute and to do it in the company of so many good friends. I was fortunate enough to to have decided that I needed to understand the RSS at more or less the time the RSS had decided that it wanted to it wanted to engage more with people from the west. And thanks really to Rahm Maddov uh in who who originally introduced me and to Tim Sha who I don’t see is here today but who introduced me to to Rahm. Uh I was able I’ve been able to meet some of the people at at many different levels in the organization and begin to acquaint myself a bit with how it works. I’m still learning. It’s a very big organization, but the reality that that it is in modern history, I I can only think of two other organizations globally that have had the kind of impact that the RSS has had. uh they’re very different organizations, but the Communist Party of China and the Muslim Brotherhood ha are are organizations that have transformed societies. And of those, the RSS is perhaps has been, you know, seems to have the longest trajectory ahead of it and maybe also be ultimately the most significant as its field of operation is the world’s most populous country. Yet, it is almost unknown territory even for many in the United States who think of themselves as knowing something about India. So to have the general secretary with us today willing to answer some of my questions and maybe if you’re lucky some of yours is a real privilege. So let me start. The RSS is one of the largest organizations in the world today. It may actually be the largest organization and yet it remains extremely poorly understood in the west. How would you describe what the RSS actually does on the ground daytoday? What is this thing? uh RSS is the people’s voluntary movement and inspired by cultural ethos and civilization values of the ancient society India which is generally known as Hindu philosophy and Hindu culture. RS has engaged for last 100 years to create volunteers whom we call swam seak in Sanskrit but for it can be loosely translated as volunteer and organizing society which is uh apparently having the vast diversities but in fact it is having underlying oneness. So to create these volunteers with character, self-confidence and a sense of service to community and also for organizing the society. For this purpose, RSS organizes daily assemblies around 83,000 latest count and weekly assemblies for 1 hour another 30,000 places. So through this one hour gathering the inculcating of uh values of life as I said self-confidence servicemindedness and feeling of oneness is achieved pay back to the society to create human social capital for the purpose of society’s betterment and nation’s oneness. So that is the work of RSS. People of every walk of life and all age group have become the volunteers of uh this organization. RSS renders services like relief activity during a natural calamities and also on other occasions in the field of education, health, self plans and rural development, environmental issues. So the RSS volunteers have created civic institutions numbering nearly 40. Most of them have become nationwide organizations engaged in nation building activities. I remember um on one of my visits to India, I went to the home of Dr. Hedgear, the founder of the RSS, and apparently there were something like five people at the opening at at the first meeting. So this organization has grown from a very tiny beginning to you say 83,000 meetings, daily meetings throughout the country. How do they get people to come to these meetings? See the uh a commitment is created because the personal individual one-on-one contacts the daily shaka creates the sense of camaraderie and because of that the social commitment is awakened in them and a sense of duty and paying back to the society selflessly. This is there in the people and we only arouse it awaken it and because of this uh environment of a in a very friendly and cordial atmosphere. The individual volunteers they attend these shakas but there is an organization structure to keep the activity going on and various responsibilities are also assigned to volunteers on the basis of their experience and competence and capacities. So this uh the organization structure takes care of continuation of the activity year long and also planning for the various uh occasional activities that are helpful for society and also helping strengthening the organization. So there is a an organizative structure but a sense of commitment and an accordial atmosphere helps in a big way to keep the work going on and yet somehow the RSS is very controversial. What do you think Americans most get wrong about the RSS or misunderstand? um about um Americans misunderstanding is not only about RSS. Yeah. About India as well. The whole Americans are very good at misunderstanding. I think we can all agree on that. But we we believe that you will be correcting those misunderstandings. Oh yes. In the 83,000 daily meetings of people who study Walter me thought America America’s misunderstanding about India is that it is overpop populated full of slums and poverty and it is a land of uh snakes slums and swamies gurus. Oh, but America, India is also a tech hub technology. Indian scientists have reached moon and India is a fourth economy in the world. So these things are somehow um they are missed in the common American uh perception about RSS also the narrative that is built over decades knowingly unknowingly or in as a part of agenda or whatever it is that RS is a Hindu supremacist or uh that is in a the the anti- anti-Christian, anti- minority, anti-development in women, anti-modernization. So what is pro is not told always anti this thing has been propagated and somehow Indian version of kuk’s clan huh which is not the saffron klux clan is what people might say well um and what how would you challenge that view um what is it that the RSS you for example they people say it’s a Hindu supremacist organization how would you say no we’re not a Hindu supremacist organization what is it that you are instead Hindu philosophy and Hindu culture doesn’t allow it to be supremacist because we see that the whole world is one family and all our brothers and sisters and there’s no question of supremacy there and We see the oneness in everybody being the living and non-living living things. Mhm. So when that is the basic philosophy of Hindus, the supremacist nature of Hindus cannot be there. Okay. And also in the history Hindus have never invaded any country. Hindus have never enslaved any people. Hindus have nothing to apologize for. Okay. Now, we’ll share that with our some of our British friends and see what they what they say. Um, and the RFS has been certainly in the last few years where it’s been, you know, closely associated with uh the BJP, the governing party, it’s been very much part of India’s cultural and economic modernization project. Um, but future We we think about future oriented modernization and then we think about the celebration of ancient Hindu roots and cultural values. It seems like modernization and tradition pull in different directions. How does the RSS think about trying to balance those impulses going back to the roots while looking to the future? See, cultural values and modernization are strictly not contradicted to each other. They can exist simultaneously though they may often create some tensions here and there and they require adaptation both modernization and cultural values according to the times. While modernization brings industrialization, technology and uh individualistic trends, it can work alongside culture and cultural values as well. See thing is the simultaneous existence of culture and modernity has been experienced in recent decades in many societies oriental societies particularly whether it is Hindu society, Indian society, Japan or China all have modernized but at the same time their cultural and civilization values they kept intact and they take inspiration from that. So that’s why I don’t think the cultural values and modernization they pull in opposite direction. Only thing is there some adoptation may be required time to time that is what the Hindu philosophy says as sanatana. The sanatra means the eternal eternity that is sanatra is it is ever growing but at the same time the ancient one. It is ancient but ever growing. The example that is given in our philosophical tenets is like a benant tree. A benant tree has deep and strong roots. It is cultural and civilizational ethos. And the banan tree has also so many branches and every season new sprout and new leaves and new flowers bloom and blossom. So that is as new as it is old. So culture and modernization can live together. that is a part of nature. In um sort of Anglo-American literary and philosophical tradition, Edmund Burke is I suppose the thinker who’s associated with this idea of modernization rooted in tradition or ultimately for him that he did not really see the contradiction. Um and I and he argued in fact that that if you lost touch with the roots ultimately this would reduce your ability to modernize successfully. Is that does that kind of coincide with Exactly. TS Elliott has also written about tradition and modernity. Ah yes well you are I was only an undergrad English major. You went to grad school so you can outdo me there clearly. Um yeah, I I I hope u personally I hope that we can spark more conversation between Americans and Indians on writers like Elliot and uh Burke and others coming out of the Indian tradition because I think there is there are unexplored connections that could really lead to a deeper understanding that might even have an impact at policy. But this is u this is one of the things that has that would be one of the wonderful project that institute like Hudson Institute can take up well absolutely and I know we have friends at the India Foundation and we may continue to speak with them about some of these these ideas uh but now let’s go to something uh more depressing great power politics um America is looking to India increasingly as an indispensable strategic partner and a counterweight in Asia to the rise of China. Um but to play a role like that which I think India also wants to prevent any other country from being dominant in in Asia. This requires a very sustained period of economic and social development of really almost a radical modernization of and institutions to be what do you think in how does India do this? What does India need to do to realize its full potential? I think in the previous sessions this has been wonderfully discussed by other panelists. So however what India wants to have good relations with all the countries na countries or distant countries particularly countries like uh US and other such major powers of the world. So if America is also looking for strategic uh partnership with India. So India is because of its size, because of its demographic evident, because of technological advancement, because it’s fourth economy in the world and the size of India’s population. Naturally, a better relation as it has been discussed and partnership is called for. And how it can be done it it can be done because of mutual trust and level playing field and mutual respect and recognizing the needs of each other. Mhm. So in I think in the modern geopolitical situation these issues are very important that mutuality is missing then I think uh the trust deficit will be there. Yeah, I I would agree and I think building peopleto-people relations Yeah. is critical for this. You said it this people-to-people relation should be strengthened so that more people understand the other societies. So many a time prejudices work or sometime the some expressions are that may be that may cause damage but definitely people should uh see the people of other societies, other civilizations, other countries they themselves then the the uh creating such an atmosphere and uh facilitating this by both state and non-state actors like institutions and think tanks and universities can do a lot in this so that uh this mutuality and trust is strengthened. Yeah, that’s certainly shaped uh a lot of what we’ve tried to do here at Hudson in our India project. We’ve been trying to take American journalists and think tank people for visits in India. Um we have we worry that because there isn’t there aren’t enough of these deep people-to-people relationships enough understanding in the US of the Indian point of view and Indian civilization that that mistakes can be made in foreign policy or whether either in the substance or in the in the presentation that can have serious serious costs. I think we’ve been we maybe were a little too late in that we were unable to prevent exactly that from happening in recent months perhaps. Uh but we hope that in the future we to us this just means we need to work harder to try to make sure that in the future the foundations of the relationship are strong enough and civic institutions can also help in this way in a big way. Exactly. Right. So we will we will continue with what we’re doing and I hope some of the people that are that are with us today will want to help us and support that mission. Um the RSS has long argued that a strong Hindu cultural identity is the foundation needed for a stronger India. But does that project risk alienating not only local minorities inside India but also maybe creating difficulties in the relations with other with neighboring states? uh how does the RSS navigate the tension between an India that is becoming more Hindu and a neighborhood where other states and particularly I could think of states that emerged from British India after the partition where this is a very divisive concept see Hindu identity is a civilizational identity not a religious one not faith based as such. There is no room for uh being alienated or think of alienation civilization and values, worldview and uh manifestations of them in life rel human relation with nature and historic facts they all contribute to the formation of a culture. So the religion is not playing that role in forming the culture. That’s why RSS has always emphasized about the cultural ethos and civilizational values which are not nothing to do with directly religion. When you say minorities is religious minorities I mean so these uh however tensions have been there on and off because of political interest wrong understanding of history or interpretation of wrong interpretation of history and some other mechanisms. RSS believes that continuous and comprehensive dialogue with all these groups uh will definitely help in clearing the miscon misgivings or if there are any fear is there that can be definitely clarified. So RSS is engaged in such dialogues with the so-called minorities and their leadership. What about with neighboring countries? With neighboring countries, tensions are there because of uh various factors because uh the there in the political leadership of uh neighboring countries. Many a time they have not uh come to the as I said the mutuality and trust that was damaged in the past decades and the people-to-people relation with neighboring countries is still even today it one of the best and that’s why um many people who visit neighboring countries and the problem is only with one neighboring country and which is born out of the Indian womb and it has become a neighboring country but uh many people are behind that country to create problems. Yeah. When you talk about this sense of civilizational identity, I find myself thinking maybe for Americans the closest comparison which is strange in a way would be to uh Jews where Judaism people are Jews both some people are Jews out of a clear religious commitment. So, but many Jews are Jewish in a cultural way and maybe don’t embrace the religion formally, but are their the their life experiences, world view, food that they eat or whatever has that cultural connection. Is is that how you think of Hinduism in India? Something like that of course. But however the comparison may not be 100% always true but it is something akin to that and what I is in the long history of uh India has developed a worldview on the base of uh the philosophy that has been uh visualized and explained in our opanish and vic uh texts. So because of that the various sects and other uh sages who have explained those things in the context of uh society and nature, they all have uh emphasized on this particular worldview and I think that has manifested in our day life. India’s soul is spirituality and the culture is the expression of the soul of a nation and India’s culture expresses that spirituality. Mhm. If the Jews are also thinking the same way, I think you are right. Well, I remember I used to live in Jackson Heights, Queens in in New York. And of course, that that is a neighborhood with a lot of people from South Asia. And you would walk down the streets uh and see restaurants and you know holiday uh you know Diwali lights and so on. But you’d find there some people were from India, some Pakistan, some Bangladesh and yet somehow in Jackson Heights they all seemed to be, you know, they felt a sense of unity and they were all drawn to the same place. Is this something of the way you think of the civilizational unity of people? It can be many many such experiments have taken place. For example, in puderi in India, Arabindu society, they have also thought of words oneness through creating oro. So this oneness has been tried by in many ways but thing is I think bringing together is one thing but feeling that oneness is possible as you said by better understanding of uh other people in society and the in a way what you said also can be helpful in making uh people understand that oneness. Now to get away from oneness for a moment here, Pakistan has recently reasserted itself as a significant player in Gulf and broader Islamic world diplomacy. From an RSS standpoint, how do you assess this development and how do you assess what it means for India and Indian policy? RSS doesn’t uh get into this uh politics of these things. However, what the government of India say and thinks and feels that is in the interest of India and we are in alignment with that. Okay. So on this particular issue you and the government are no on many issues. Many issues. Yes. because the people who are in the government are from the ISS background. Yes. And this we when we mentioned earlier that there were that something like 40 organizations national organizations have come out of the BJP of the RSS or be been started by its volunteers. One of them I guess is the BJP. So the relationship between the RSS and the ruling party in India is quite close and one could even say profound which is one of the reasons certainly that we at Hudson Institute think that Americans need to spend a lot more time understanding the worldview of the RSS and the and the aspirations of the RSS because they’re not unconnected to the ideas that are moving the current government. Of course, the formation of BJP in 1980 was because of their the founders of the BJP. They wanted to retain the relationship arses. So that was the prime reason for formation of the political party coming away from Jantaa party at that time. That’s why that umbilical relationship cannot be wished away. That’s right. And I guess the prime minister has been an active volunteer in the RSS for much of his life. That is true. He’s also proud of it and we are also proud of him. Uh very much so. Well, you know, from from five people meeting in one in a doctor’s house in a in uh one city in India to a movement that has generated the political party that now rules the most populous country on the planet and has perhaps received more votes in Democratic elections than any other political party now exist. existing on the planet. It’s quite a movement. That’s quite a first 100 years. What next? Thank you for that compliment. And if we are number one on the planet, we have not become big brothers and we will not be with the strength. The humility comes. That is what the Hindu philosophy says and we not only believe in that we are the practitioners of that. So that the strength and success has made us humble and we want to be so. So humbly I would like to submit that the RSS will be for the next decades and whatever time it takes you’ll be engaging in the same activity of creating selfless volunteers for the work of society nation and for the work of humanity for the service of humanity at large Because it has always been said that a real Hindu sees us to be a Hindu. He becomes universal global citizen and the IRS believes in that. So that’s why this uh work of creating SMC volunteers and engaging them in socioultural activities for the benefit of society, nation and humanity will continue and at the same time we would like to see that India embraces modernity modern it get modernized but having its cultural roots strong enough so that the succeeding generations of India they should be able to fulfill the realize the dream of uh the great patriots who worked for the emancipation of India for last centuries. So that dream should be fulfilled but it also makes us we it also enables us to serve the humanity and for this RS is at the threshold of centinary has thought of five areas in the next uh years to to engage itself. One of the challenges before the Indian society and also a challenge before humanity is coercion and harmony within Indian society. The social harmony and coion as I said in the beginning the diversities and disparities many a time they create tensions and mistrust and in order to achieve unity the emphasizing social harmony and working for that is necessary. Second, an eco-friendly life at the personal family level also. Many time environmental issues are discussed on international fora, public policies are made, protocols are signed but ultimately it boils down to how the individuals and societies and communities they behave with environment. So that is why small but doable actions for the ordinary people should be designed and it should be told and communicated. That’s why eco-friendly life on the day-to-day basis for green life, clean life is necessary. Use less energy, save water, planetary. These things in a big way will be helpful so that you bring the people near to nature. Third, family values and inculcating embibing cultural and humanistic values in the upcoming generation and family are built on affection and trust. So families are breaking because of modern life and many others choose. So that’s why family values are important. That is why the or RSS has thought of this emphasizing on healthy families. Healthy family is guarantee for healthy nations. And the fourth thing is nations have to be self-reliant. That is why our prime minister has also said atma that is self-reliance in economy and also security issues and many other issues. But that doesn’t mean give and take will be over. We have to keep the doors open. But anytime dealing with any society, any country, any nation should be on our own uh in the nation’s interest. So national sell food in every walk of life including economy and other that also should be considered for uh proper nation building activity. And the fifth civic duties and civic uh sense that means wholesome citizenship qualities and virtues that should be inculcated embibd in individuals and communities. So these five areas as a first step the ISS has started among its volunteers and now at the on the occasion of centenary year we are now spreading it to whole nation and uh we have been communicating this to large society through various activities and I believe these Five areas are universal things. Social harmony, environment, family values, civic sense and duties. All these things are definitely they are having their universal acceptance and this is in a way universal value for the whole world. So RSS has started to embibbe these qualities. So that’s why that is how you want to make a strong prosperous nation that would be bringing the dreams of our forefathers for the great nation and also to feel and make world as one family. So for that it cannot be an emotional exhortation but for that a nation has to be strong and self-confident enough then only we can serve the cause of humanity wherever there is misery and hardship. Okay. Well that sounds like a enough work to keep you busy for a while. Uh that’s a very very ambitious and very thoughtful program. We we we we want uh your uh active participation and cooperation also for this. I can there’s nothing in any of those five points that that I disagree with. So I think we can I’m I’m looking forward to continuing to to get to know you the organization in India better and working to build bridges. Thank you for this. And we we actually do have some time for some questions for the from the audience. So please remember that a question is a short statement that ends would be punctuated with a question mark. So let’s try to keep it short so that many can have a chance. Yes, the lady back here and the mic is coming to you. Please introduce your just tell us who you are and ask your question. My name is Sahana Singh. I’m an author. Uh I’m based in Ethaka, New York. Uh and my question is for Datria G. uh where you um I wanted to know the difference between um volunteering and sava and the sutran work done by RSS because see my daughter studied in high school and the only reason she did volunteering was that there were credits associated with it so many hours of volunteering and you get credit and that’s how you graduate but in uh with RSS there doesn’t seem to be any of that kind of incentive there’s no incentive of heaven or fear of hell or no uh credits but still there are so many of them getting into this kind of work and how is it different from volunteering? I’ve already told um volunteer is a loose translation of the term so civak or short of better term we are using this one the sew or the head said is not just giving some time for some community service and getting some credits as you rightly recognized. So it is a way of life. The S rss the volunteers they feel that it is a a way of life that they have adopted. So that’s why the volunteer generally it is counted in time 1 hour 1 date etc. Here it is 24 by7 and 365 days and once always that is our basic thing that we say. So that is it is a lifestyle that he has adopted. He follows it in his family and it becomes a a habit for to live a life of uh uh as I said values with uh integrity, honesty, transparency, servicemindedness and that is get that gets expressed in every activity of the person who joined the RS. So that’s why this uh is continuously is possible because of persontoerson continuous communication and contact and I’ve already explained that in the beginning how it uh goes on and on for the continuation is there. So that is how the s’s volunteering work is there. It is not as you rightly put it for some but it is a lifestyle and RSS volunteers works from day one they feel that they belong to this nation and culture and they have to do something for society and pay back to society. So this uh is embedded because of the activities that are conducted in one hour assembly which we call shaka. So because of that this is possible. Uh yes sir. Hello. My name is Saddan Shikoshik. I’m a doctoral researcher at Johns Hopkins looking into political communications for young people. Uh my question revolves around India. As you know there are 67 cr or 670 million people below the age of 25. Um I’ve had the opportunity to study ABVP um and how it engages uh young people. My question is more so how do we move beyond as someone who you know focuses on the day-to-day how do we incorporate or how does the sun incorporate more young people into its decision-making body? I know you were talking about the conflict or not the conflict but the uh the way that you know modernity works with our culture and tradition. So as as a satan you value uh the time the service that you put in but modernity also requires more young people having a seat at the table. Um really curious to hear your thoughts. Is it the activity that keeps uh engaged? As I already said, you wanted how many people Oh, young people. Oh, young people are attracted. Right. Leadership and young people. Yeah. In RSS all are young at heart. One more. The young people by young by age of course because the s shakas are having the on the age group based. The sa shakas are for the young kids, boys, schoolgoing boys. the people who are professionals slightly grown up and people who are retired who are aged who are senior citizens. So the activity designed accordingly that is why shakas are also held uh they are conducted uh on the age group based uh manner. So that is why the as I said sense of the young people contact the young people and they come because of the that friendship one and another thing is the the leadership position is also there. These people are given the full freedom to design their activity. they conduct the whole uh the activity the shaka activity and also the young people in the RSS um they are given the organizational positions because of uh one is RSS conducts training camps those who are having those training because of that organizational management is learned and Uh another is experience. because of uh their nature, behavior and experience they naturally they take the leadership positions and RSS believes in and practices team work and team leadership that is continuously it happens every shaka is conducted because of a team work that is there and these things help in achieving ing young people taking leadership positions and keep the activity going on. Okay. Yes. Uh thank you very much. Very fascinating to listen to the conversation the fireside chat. Uh my question I’m Praep Kapoor. I’m from the Indian foreign service and work now in the area of geopolitics and academics and passionately involved with rural transformation. Uh my question is sir the India US partnership has the potential to become the defining partnership for the 21st century for the world. The thread perceptions on both the sides are quite uh similar. There’s jihadi Islam, there’s wokeism, there is China, there is terrorism and maybe even political Islam for both the countries. um how do the two countries better sync their positions and get into alignment in a way that um it’s better for us, it’s better for India and it’s better for the world because we don’t see that happening. We see lots of you know ups and downs and roller coaster rides and hiccups. How do we smoon it a little bit in the long run with participation of like you know the Indian diaspora here does a lot of work. Unfortunately we do not have a parallel diaspora American diaspora in India which would of course help similarly if it was there but what are your thoughts on that? Thank you about this thing. I think much has been discussed during the day and uh nothing more to be added. I think the India diaspora in America that’s their role if you want see their first allegiance is to actually as citizens those who are citizens here they have a duty to be good citizens this country land and as citizens whatever is expected they have to do And there is a a cultural connect and that should be retained. It can it it it will be retained naturally and because of that they can definitely uh help and participate uh in the process of uh creating better relation between these two great democracies and countries. And back home they if they feel that they can serve the cause of the culture they are welcome to do that but uh they can retain the they can they should continue that uh affinity. So Indian diaspora in America is not one monolith. It is also having lot of uh other the I’m not telling they are waring groups because their situations are different. Some are coming along. We saw some have come as students. Some are Indian origin people who have been here for decades like you and some are born birthright citizenship they have acquired. So Indian diaspora also carries many of the identities that they have back home in India, language, religion etc. So that’s why it is having many identities simultaneously one individual is also having multiple identities in different times. So that’s why I think this uh unique diversity can achieve unity because the unique RSS way of thinking. So that is all those people they should primarily should be motivated the world is one family and their duty towards host country and their cultural responsibility. Okay. Well this I’m afraid we are coming to the end of our time together and uh if I don’t finish up we’ll never get out of here. Um, just to close down the the conference, first of all, I would I would like to thank Dr. Tatrea for for for sharing his time with us like this. Um, for the many distinguished guests, Ambassador Quattra, many other guests that are here today. Uh I look around I see a lot of faces of people I’ve come to know and trust uh in my work in India. My colleagues here at Hudson. I hope you you heard the message from our uh from Joel Scanland this morning of Hudson’s deep determination to continue working on and and helping to build this relationship. The many colleagues that joined us from other Washington think tanks. Uh, it’s been, I think, a a rich, exciting conference. It has renewed my own personal determination to continue to do what little I can do to build what I fully agree with Kurt Campbell is a decisive relationship for the peace and stability of the world in the 21st century. In some ways when I think about what peace could look like at a time when I think most of us would say we don’t see enough peace in the world um bringing if India can be successful in bringing let’s let’s not even talk about a geopolitical balance of power in Asia but a cultural economic and social balance in the Indo-Pacific Pacific. If India can emerge as the kind of great civilizational power font of ideas and enterprise of uh generator of wealth yet also built around a civilization of understanding and take its full place among the other great nations and civilizations of the world and would I would never exclude China from a place at that table, Iran, many other fine nations, civilizations. India resuming its its full place in the world is key to the development of a kind of a human world where we can all be fully members of our own cultures and civilizations, but learn from, mix with, work with people all over the world. So, thank you for the work that you’re doing.