My Stocks For Wealth Creation Prafull Rai Exclusive The Broadview

TITLE: My Stocks for Wealth Creation | Prafull Rai Exclusive | The BroadView with Nikunj Dalmia CHANNEL: The BroadView DATE: 2026-06-25 ---TRANSCRIPT--- Google does not throw up your name. GDP has no history. [laughter] What is pivot? Can you just define it in simple language for us?

It’s a drastic change in what you have been doing, what you’re used to do and you are accepting that this is not going to work for long. What was the Tata pivot? If you could just share more on that. Titan is a classy pivot. The watch is a very small market. Energy right here. What is the pivot there? Explain. The way we produce energy is changing. The way we consume energy is changing. The way we store energy is changing. Can Adani Enterprises do that? They’re still doing it at that scale. They’re doing it. Medicine again. Uh Bkart was making all rightes. [music] I couldn’t believe it. But I think that company is set an example. So you’ll start seeing more of them and finance. What’s your favorite example of what’s your favorite pivot [music] where wealth can be created? Difficult. So you’ve identified that there is a possible big pivot which is at play in Raindra image. Introduce the company to our viewers. So again it’s it’s a utility in the in the solar business which is the other big pivot you participating other company which I I participated meaningful is a company called access so secret envelopes and all these envelopes have names last card. Do you want to guess what it is? [laughter] My guest has spent nearly three decades understanding one simple thought. Focus on the rate of change. The premise is simple. Companies that fundamentally reinvent themselves. They create extraordinary wealth. His framework is simple. In life, the greatest risk is for those who do not try. He believes if you’re on the right side of the change, you will see magical things in your portfolio and he is building a framework a thought process and it is called the pivot. So what is the pivot framework and what is the right rate of change one should focus on and for that it gives me well great pleasure to welcome Proful Ry for the first time on broad view and the cheeky story is I have known him from last 25 years but this is for the first time I’m interacting with him in this afar so pul welcome to the broad view thanks a You’ve been uh you’ve perhaps played in all the quadrants of market analyst, sell side, buy side, private equity investor, and now you’re managing your family office. Yet Google does not throw up your name. Child GDP has no history. Conscious effort. [laughter] a conscious effort. It doesn’t happen by itself. So, can I say the biggest pivot is that you are making him public appearance now? You forced me to do it. [laughter] Actually, that’s a fact. You have Nikon has been behind it forever. [laughter] Your framework is centered around one simple thing, rate of change. Correct. It’s the pivot framework. What is pivot? Can you just define it in simple language for us? It’s a drastic change in what you have been doing, what you used to do and you are accepting that this is not going to work for long. The first is acceptance that okay I have been doing this uh but I need to change otherwise I’ll be destroyed. It starts with acceptance and then you add I say it’s a 180°ree change of what you have been thinking what you have been doing to what you want to do. What is a classic example which comes to your mind when it comes to a business or a company or where a management they have literally changed their course what it was versus where it moved. Uh there was a 180° turn. Give me an example. Adani okay trading house port operator airport operator defense manufacturer look at the changes he has done to the business right a trader to a port operator is like a is is is a is a world of a change it’s not like a small change uh and it’s not just a port operator he didn’t just pivot into port he ended up becoming India’s largest port operator uh when he when he decides to get into defense from pop look at the way they are executing. So I think as a as a family is a very interesting example of a of a family being able to pivot into different businesses very different from fundamentally what they have been doing uh and demonstrated that they can do it again and again with scale scale and size scale and size and it’s not just changing the business line adding new business line a massive case of perseverance they They just stay on it for long periods of time to for it to succeed. It it doesn’t happen in a hurry. Like when they started airport or when they started poor, they were on it for a decade before it started yielding results. So a they have ability to pivot. They have patience to see it through. That’s a a family doing it. Tata is a business house. It’s not a family. But Titan was able to do it. And what beautiful example they have said that like what was the Tata pivot if you could just share more on that. Titan Titan is a classy pivot. Uh the watch is a very small market. They were trying to compete with HMT for forever. You used to think of buying a Titan watch or HMT watch. And then they started changing. HMT is is just not in the game. It is out. HMT is closed virtually. And look at what they have done to Titan. Tanish is is is multiple time bigger than what they had in watch. The time was maybe 100 times. It’s a industrial it’s a it’s a it’s a business house which pivoted. One is a family which pivoted but both have set examples of of success coming out of it and the wealth creation in both the cases is enormous. So it’s enormous and beyond enormous. If you would have participated in any of these two stories in 10 15 years I think you can just you’ll be laughing your way to the bank just you have to do it just see it’s happening go there sit participate so to your mind which are the big obvious and the nonobvious pivots in the world let’s start with the biggest one according to you energy okay energy right here what is a pivot there explain the way we produce energy is changing The way we consume energy is changing. The way we store energy is changing. Every part of it like the way we produce we are saying that we will move from nuclear. We are talking of from fision to fusion. In in renewable we are we are dabbling between solar, wind or best or combination of three and plus other ways of storing energy. In thermal again we we are talking of becoming more and more efficient. We are dabbling between all the forms of thermal. We are talking of uh geological form of storing energy that is basically using the earth heat to convert into energy. So in every sphere you are seeing energy. You’re you’re seeing a massive change. Uh this basket will undergo a major change and this is the biggest opportunity in front of us. Energy change is the biggest energy transition to the way we have been producing to the way we have been consuming is is undergoing a change at all levels. It’s it’s easy to understand truffle that okay the way we are producing energy is changing it is moving from wind to from thermal to solar and from solar to perhaps nuclear storage easy to understand battery storage I guess is the not you know next go to space but when you say that the also in battery the more logical way of storing energy is uh is water water storage is also a way of saving energy because you lift the water up in in in the in the in the daytime time and when there’s a peak requirement you bring the water down, you move the turbine that’s also storage in there also there are a lot of aspects it’s not the every part of energy ecosystem is being looked upon of what can be done but when you say the way we consuming energy is changing what do you mean by that because we pretty much consume the same form of energy when it hits your house I don’t care from where in from the bulbs you’re using 10 15 years hack it is at least for 30 40 times more efficient. Okay. Even in ceiling fans it’s as dumb as that. Uh you are having BLC fans again 40 that is 40 time 30 40 time more efficient to be moved from incandescent to to uh to CFLs to to the new generation. We are talking of normal plans to BLC. Government is forcing companies to become air conditioner, right? Yeah. It’s no longer a luxury now. No, forget luxury. You see the stars going up every year. But the star definition also changing. So what was a five star AC five seven years back is no longer a fivestar because now you become more efficient. You are seeing changes again. I’m saying you’re seeing changes everywhere. something some sometimes very directly sometimes indirectly but it’s happening in front of you it’s just that we don’t realize it like a company called atom which atom which is a IT Bombay startup was becomes one of the largest company because they they got into BLC fans the fans changed from 800 rupee 1,000 rupee 2,000 a piece to 7,000 a piece but they are more efficient they pay for themselves in 5 years 4 years whatever it’s a change it just change happened in front of you didn’t even notice and now everybody is supposed to follow the path Okay, probably the second big change is autos and that’s easy change to perhaps comprehend. It’s easy change to see and it’s easy change it’s a change which we all are experiencing. It is ICE which is moving into EV. Uh but that’s like the headline change. uh what is the real change in auto according to you see I mean it’s not just ice to EV there are many lines between that right you you had ICE you had then hybrids then you had uh dual one you have ice engine and batteries both in the car and then you have pure EVs that is one transition which is playing in front of you the second transition playing in front of us is which is being questioned u that one individual moves in a two-ton vehicle, a 170 80 kg individual actually is moving a 2,000 kg car. That also is a question being asked. Uh when you have going to next level of questions, you’re questioning the traffic jams are a plenty every you started seeing drones carrying people or air taxis coming. See there also you have multiple layers of changes because you’re questioning see the point I’m make I I’m thinking about it is that every aspect of this is getting questioned. So when Chinese are saying that EVs are the best options, Indians are saying that uh dual vehicle that is like ice plus plus your battery or hybrid is a better option or Toyota is saying I’ll have more hybrid because that’s more logical. Some companies are saying I’ll stick to ICE because that is also still relevant. But the fact is every part is getting question in car everything is is under scrutiny. Actually, one of the fastest growing segments in cars is a car which can carry one or two people. Why should I go in a if I’m driving myself, if at all I get a chance, I’ll buy a car which just drives me because 90% I’m the only guy in [laughter] the in the in the wake up. But the the fact is that will also come in question. But to draw a parallel here, Mahindra and Mandra has made a comeback largely because of their bet on SUVs. SUVs means more power, higher speed and perhaps more authority. Can both these changes coexist which is transport vehicles like you said they are shrinking and also on the other side they are becoming more powerful. See the large vehicle is aspirational right? I want to drive a large vehicle. The space for aspiration always shrinks. What is logical will expand. Um for Mahindra I think the largest segment would be 6B and the the the the the EV platform electric platform they have created and they’re very clear about it the way they look at their ads they’ll tell you that this is what you want to focus on and the large aspirational things are at the sides if you look at their ads very clearly they demonstrate the EVs are at the front now in the company’s mind that is pretty clear what they’re doing but till the consumer wants to buy those large SUVs why should they not sell but companies position themselves so if I have to Now think of the new generation Indian companies in the in the transport segment. It’s not logical that Mindra Indian company I’m talking of does Mahindra not come as the as the as the first company in your mind that space they’ve already occupied unless Mahindra evolves doesn’t evolve the way it should I think this these guys will dominate and Mahindra has been trying to get the maximum of what they can maybe JW will become a competitor I don’t have answers they yet to they now they are no longer a fringe player But uh JSW is also a very serious contender. This space was up for grabs for Tatas by the way since you’re talking of that JSW came because there was a room left by Maruti because they were or Suzuki for that matter because they were thinking of incrementally from ice to hybrid. Mahindra jumped from ice to EV and meaningful jump. Tatas were trying to figure out and JSW said I’ll only have EVs. So they started as an extreme and therefore they have a space they I won’t say they were started with EVs but they they said this is the space we want to be you have some vehicles there but like by and large the focus of JSW has been to provide to they want there they want a space for themselves in the EV segment medicine again whether it is AI whether it is breakthrough like GLP1 or whether it is pure speed of innovation or process processing of data. Medicine is also going going through what really could be called as a very fast pivot moment. What we used to call a generational change will become a regular feature in medicine. I think that’s it used to take 5 year 10 year the development time frame is shrinking. The regulations are not keeping pace with the development time frame. Therefore the the the the testing trial this that will will take its own suit time. But what the companies who spend time on development of whether it’s peptide or whether it’s generic or whether it’s new chemical entity I think that window is shrinking and that shrinking really really rapidly we saw first instance of say bookard coming out with the NC but that they have been working on it forever but you’ll see more of such things happening so new new molecule entities entities will now find India will be able to have that breakout moment aha moment whether India does or somebody else I don’t have answers to that uh we can’t say it happening only India right uh but the speed will be drastically different just like how vaccine would take 15 years to develop in co whether it’s compulsion or whether it is speed or whether it is technology we were able to crack the code in less than 6 months we were able to produce the medicine and deliver it in less than 6 months so what happens to Indian pharma companies because the whole Indian generic model was centered around produce cheaper drugs take the advantage of patent cliff and as US is cutting the health care cost that alternate is going to be a country like India which has a large scale of manufacturing if that arbitrage is now going to go away if that arbitrage is going to be questioned what happens to Indian generic code now let’s think differently um again thinking why when I’m talking I’m thinking through see what happens is that the speed at which you can we can create a new molecule or a new entity or a new drug or upgraded drug or whatever it is will shrink but and therefore and also ability to produce more of such things more responses to a medical problem will also go up right there was one response to one a problem now there three responses to the same problem or maybe more because it’s it’s become easy to do development process is shrinking the the the the ideating time is just going down but the testing will be required right because you just can’t say like American patient can be administered a medicine without a proper process of human testing this that my sense and my sense is India will become more integral part to the development process than what it has been earlier finance So what is the big biggest pivot which is happening and what is the biggest pivot which has happened in the world of finance? Digital currencies I think world digital currencies are going to come India will also be part of the game. India is also trying. Mhm. U there two schools which are happening schools of thought which one is the blockchain currencies bas have many of them uh currencies with a purpose also there but I think regulators will not leave that space for these guys. So every country will come with its own version of uh digital currency or some consortium of countries will come like we keep talking of bricks all the time right that’s a digital currency. You’ll have a five countries coming together and have some kind of a currency or these these things will will change because again the you can create a currency you can create a currency of on a layer of your existing uh setup of uh on your existing financial setup you can create a CBDC central bank digally sponsored currency that will come that will be a big change because that will change the way you transact the way you remmit uh a layer above UPI is what you can call. So who will be the hero of this energy pivot in in the world? What is your favorite example of the energy pivot? In the world I don’t understand but in India. Energy pivot in India if I have to put a bet on companies. I think it will be all companies which are in the energy storage segment. Mhm. What’s your favorite uh pivot in the medicine space? medicine I have not invested a lot but if you ask me if I would have I should have invested or I should have looked at it uh VKart was making all rightes I couldn’t believe it but I think that company is such an example you’ll start seeing more of them and finance what’s your favorite example of what’s your favorite pivot or where wealth can be created difficult even talking about application too much of regulations Mhm. See, pivot requires the freedom, right? A bank cannot say I’m going to do business very differently than what I was doing earlier. The regulator wants to do more of the same and better of the same. How can you pivot there? Even fintech companies, end of it, they end up becoming dependent. See, I have some exposure there because they are very reasonably priced. But with regulatory constraints, very difficult to pivot because the guardrails are so strong that you will not have they need to have guardrails. uh because that’s a regulatory decision that this is how we we want to run the the financial set setup. M as you see bank cannot say I want to pivot 180° they may know what they have to do or what they can do differently but will they be allowed [snorts] I don’t know if center one central bank come direct CBDC as they call it maybe there may be some room to do something different you know in finance proper to be fair the wealth creation has been massive in last 20 years whether it is HDFC bank which identified the whole power of focusing on digital and tech where it was bajach finance which used the power of civil in a sense to really start approving loans or the kind of franchise what the PTM has created. But you think now for investors wealth creation could be recovered PTM has created a government created UPI PTM created a layer on UPI and did they they they did what they had to do but if you ask me from here on very difficult to say that even PTM for that matter okay so what I’ll do is that what we’ve identified is what are pivots what are the big pivots happening and within those big pivots what are the transformational uh you know opportunities for investor isn’t for wealth creation. But I go back to a very basic building blocks. What is the number one building block for somebody who wants to identify the next pivot? What is your starting point? When do you say hello? What is that big block for you? Big pivot if a company does or a business does or house does. I think the first thing I look at it okay this this is interesting they’re doing at least they’re experimenting. But what is the size of the opportunity they’re talking about? Okay, which is called TAM. You can call it time or whatever size of opportunity like it is whether it’s Indian opportunity, it’s a global opportunity or whatever we may let let it be but whenever I see announcement of a pivot or sort of a new thing company’s trying to do or business trying to do the size opportunity is the first thing okay this makes sense or not at least worth if not investing worth keeping a track of so for me the first start starting point is if such and I want to see in public it’s not like I’m privately doing something I I would not like to meet so many of managements and like to know lot about but once you make a public statement it carries weight and once you make a public statement this is what I want to do and this is then it it triggers a thinking okay fine this is this makes sense or not the time first thing what is the second thing will they be able to do it how do you capability capability is in two forms. Okay. either it is somewhere related to what they have been doing right uh say a alloy company or steel alloy company is saying I’ll I I’ll do some some [snorts] very highend applications of say a different composition of metal this that whatever form they may be from a steel maker it makes okay fine they can actually attempt to do it they may succeed or not that separate but Say a ally company saying I’m going into a a a SASbased product development or whatever. The first thing is whether they have the innate capability of trying to they have the capability of doing handling that. Um many times these large shifts happen by at the time of time when the management changes like there is a inertia in the earlier generation of not doing things. Uh but what happens is that when a new generation come they start looking the same thing at different ways. Many new capabilities get added. Uh give me an example of where the pivot has happened because of management change. You have Baj very classy two kids one country the same business as I pivoted. [snorts] Yeah. Bajage Finance created out of a family accepting that okay this fellow is good at this let him do it. Yeah Bajage Auto’s original balance sheet actually has incubated Bajage Finance. You have the answer. Entire Bajage finance setup is is is a is a is is in a classic case of young generation coming in. They’re looking at things differently and they’re seeing that there’s no space for me to do it. Technically, it was a pivot then it separated out and now this is the answer you have. It’s a most successful example since you’re taking you’re talking of these finance companies. Mhm. That actually happened in your and my investing life and see when it happened we could have still participated. Yes. It was there for us to see [laughter] and it was not it was not tight. It was another example. It just happens all the time. So prof now that we’ve identified uh the importance of time the management vision or I would say willingness pivot is about not vision it is about willingness to perhaps walk on that lonely road when nobody’s walking with you. It is about you know getting resistance in a boardroom. It is perhaps you know getting big bats from your shareholders when you announce it. It is perhaps digesting the fact that okay stock when I will inform to the exchanges. uh these are questions which perhaps dissuade you from doing that pivot. That’s where the management’s conviction comes in. But the new dimension to any pivot now is speed AI. What is the importance of speed in pivot? More than the speed was the conviction speed happened later but the management had demonstrated conviction for few years before the speed takes up. Um so for a pivot to succeed you have to go through the 2 three years of pain which happens everywhere and then the speed catches up and that is a period when investor patients also get tested. Uh that is the time when management patients also get tested and their conviction get tested. Since you’re talking of boardroom discussion, I not that I’m private to it but uh but see you will need that that that conviction of everyday doing things for it to succeed. In Bajash finance I was like much late in the game but still meaningful still meaningful. club I owe it to them to to have propelled my portfolio to whatever at the early stage but even if you catch it late it’s fine so what is the pivot in I’m going to move these blocks because now we start about the pivot stocks which proful is excited about this is what I do exactly so [snorts] you’ve identified that there is a possible big pivot which is at play in raindra energy introduce the company to our viewers so it’s it’s a utility in the in the solar business solar utility you can call it. They they they make small solar stations catering largely to the state. They figured out okay energy in in in this space the big opportunity in the short hall transportation. The company started pivoting out. They did some alliance collaboration with China this that they were able to get the business model in place. They now this this company which is this the owner of the company this is a very interesting example the owner of the company decided okay fine I want to spend more time on this than my run traditional business what was the traditional business solar utility before that they were the founders of Narendra Muri Murumbi okay but he’s spending a large part of his time if you see the press release of the company he talks about this business energy in motion that’s clear that okay the the the promoter is founders are focusing here. I think it’ll take two three years for them to get the business model right. They’re in process of figuring out because it’s a new thing for the country, new thing for them also. But once they’re able to figure out the model, then the growth starts. And what is the time of this business? See any vehicle which is above 30 40 50 ton vehicle can be 10 short hall all port all construction site all mining applications and what when you say a second point is that whether it succeed or not I don’t have answers I have placed a bet that it’ll succeed I it may just fail but if it succeeds I think success will be huge because they’re the first movers and what is the disclosure and energy I I have invested it’s in public. Uh the company did a preferential fund raise which which I happen to participate. Uh it’s not a recommendation because the company is in a business of building something which is risky. Uh but the is the logic for doing that? Yes. Which is the other big pivot you’re participating in? Other company which I I participated meaningful is a company called access kids. uh uh when I invested a small time service company uh [snorts] from a service company to a sort of making small prototypes s for for semiconductors to defense to all and now interestingly they have sold out all the services business they’ve got out of all the prototyping activity and they are now going into u large scale productions what exactly do man lot of application for defense like in opsindur you saw some of the products uh getting used uh they have interesting uh subsidiary which is making components and products and um and uh sub assemblies which get used in uh space applications it’s a very high-tech manufacturing I would say cutting edge manufacturing is a very they called this company called Misal which was more production side of it. But the the fact is this is a very different game. I’m making I’m making a concept prototype uh doing a R&D on development facilitating a development for large consumers. Uh sometime making a a design for a semiconductor company to saying I’ll just make the product and when I’m saying I’ll make the product I’m just saying I’m selling all the businesses of this prototyping and services. They actually exited everything actually. This is the press release again in public last to last week and uh last week or I think 10 15 days back there we have sold all the businesses we want to sell so that we focus on this and they’re talking about revenue of see whether they succeed or not I think they no one knows u but they’re talking about revenue going 10 times uh seven times in 3 years and they’re public they’re very uh confident of it because they’re making a statement in their calls they’re making in public in on the press releases. This is what the target is for next 3 4 years. Um but think of it this company is pivoting from services to production powerhouse. Okay. Um the value is already up 10 15 20 times before you start seeing the [snorts] ramp up there. Okay. The markets have been favorable. So maybe you can take away part of it because of better market. But the fact is company is able to to change the course and very meaningful change. Of course the point I was making 3 years four years when the company changes course the value creation also happens in that moment what’s your disclosure here if I I have see all the stocks we are discussing with an exception of few I will have to one can safely assume I’ll have everything but I’m talking [laughter] you’ll be happier and you’ll be wealthier if these stocks they go up uh but again my time frame would be couple of years more maybe more most of the stocks I’d be holding for like 3 years four years maybe more which isn’t one large cap pivot which you are excited about a company which is large. We know the pivot. It’s just that we are not able to understand the true potential of the kind of pivot they’ve done. Very difficult for a large company to pivot now. Very difficult. Actually, it’s not that they will not do it. Uh but to move the needle in a large pivot is not easy. Can Adani Enterprises do that? They’re still doing it at that scale. They’re doing it’s commendable. They just keep doing it business after business. I It’s Adani is a very classy execution story. See we can get into there lot of debates and discussions which happened about the group. The fact is they they’re able to do it that they demonstrating that data center was there they had no sense of doing data center now in couple of years they’ll be large in the country. So they were not there. So Dan Group is one company like we discussed at the beginning of the show from being a trading company now to perhaps just having presence in the large hard assets with low obsolence and assets which are essentially a play of India’s GDP they’re capturing that entire pivot very well whatever is needed for a economy of our size four to5 trillion Adine enterprises in a sense is able to find an exciting business which they’re able to add I think the more important part is that I I somehow feel They look at scale before they get into anything. Airport, port, data centers, defense. See these are very mining development, mines, power, transmission. See there are very large opportunities where they can. So they I this is a very interesting example of how you first identify this time then you put your bets because they know they can and a they are able to identify time build a team execute it and again and again they are able to do it. uh proful for the longest time we’ve read that look focus on companies which don’t change and the classic example here is that very famous American investors have always identified themselves with companies which do not pivot or do not change dramatically the idea is to buy a business not promote not a promoter is there merit in revisiting that whole core thesis that’s old school investing but that may not be relevant for that is still relevant see the the See you decide uh let let’s put this way the construct of a portfolio for making 15% return 20% return 30% return 40% return or whatever the number is everybody has different expectations from what they what they’re doing the construct changes if I’m investing in a mature business I know I’m going to what the construct of the portfolio look like because if see first decide this is what you want and then you put your risk right put your bets uh if you want 15% there is a grade or 10% 12% 15% there are companies which will have those behavior tendencies of that so that school has not changed that school stays the same you have to find what you are suited for so like I in my case I take risk I I bet on entrepreneurs I I bet on pivots uh So see this is a personality type though I it’s like since you asked for couple of large financial institutions and banks I did buy a lot of PSUs in 2020 2021 because they were just just people are just throwing away that was a trade that was not a trade but I have I still hold some of them and they’ve done really well it’s not that they have not done well but will I buy them now no it was just sheer opportunity there’s inertia not to sell them because they’ve done so well and they’ve been so rewarding that why should I sell but that day I was not buying SDFC bank actually I should have sold SDFC bank if at all I had any and bought into well machines but again that’s separate so the point I was you’re making is there a merit in buying those old I think absolutely yes if you have a portfolio and you have a return expectation and you have a temperament that I don’t want to see draw downs and what’s wrong in then having some of these great large franchises like what you spoke of. Yeah. You know, I mean, I always like to bring this point out on our conversations on broad views that investing just like one shoe does not fit all. Uh you know, investing is different for everybody because your risk size, time, duration and also portfolio sizing I think is different. What may work for you like a charm may not work for me depending on my time scale and risk appetite. So coming back to that whole point on where I can feel the change, where I can smell the change and where the pivot has happened is the Indian entrepreneurship vehicle which is that aspiration, inspiration and the real framework of hard work and intelligent intelligence is now coming from just about everywhere from India. Small towns have become the fountain heads. the entrepreneurship wheel is now humming very very uh at a very rapid pace. So when you invest and you said that you always look at promoters in your overall overall mix of the way you invest and where you’ve invested which are your top uh promoters entrepreneurs you’re excited about that I see I I do take risks in these places but I don’t put disproportionate bets on anything. Okay to that extent I know that I can lose money in every bet I have taken that’s risk management I can lose money in every bet I have taken and I go wrong very often okay to first thing I don’t believe who knows let’s not get into right if I get a sense okay this guy is not delivering for whatever reasons And with largely 90% of I would say 99% of whatever information I want I get in public domain. It’s not that I have to search for anything more than what is there. If I’m having that and it’s not generally not listed unlisted company. Um for me it’s a portfolio which is reasonably diversified. diversification always has a has a has a sort of which will reduces the the portfolio outcomes uh to that extent but I’m happy with that. So that is one part of risk but separately then um this this whole SM MSME exchange which has come up which probably you have discussed earlier also see these exchange the these entities have been delivering great returns for like 8 10 12 years the people have been saying there’s a fraud there’s there’s wrong things happening definitely there’s a fraud definitely wrong things happening definitely the disclosures are below the desired levels but mind it there are They’re not mature businesses. So he the moment you get into that space, you are taking a call more in the entrepreneur than in the business. So suppose I’m investing Hindustan, I don’t care about who is the guy. I’m taking a call on the valuation in the business and the growth and so on and so forth. But the moment I look at say a small 200 cr market cap company, I’m taking a call on the entrepreneur. Who’s this guy who’s doing it? So which are the entrepreneurs you’ve taken better? There are quite a few. But uh like there’s a company called FA I have a small stake in that again massively diversified portfolio but therefore I can lose if at all one bet goes wrong it goes down it goes up u but they are talking that okay we are getting into people are talking zero liquid discharge they’re saying zero discharge let’s remove the discharge from factory entirely I think they they’re filing a patent and they start selling the product uh both uh are from one of the top IITs uh researchers uh very nicely executing very good feedback from business disclosures are enough and more for us to take a decision um but suppose they’re able to deliver that right u you change the game from from from the product gets accepted and the time will just explode and so I See in my case like I may have invested in this company two years back one and a half years two years back I’m observing that company very closely the moment I see that they say okay fine we are done with it I may just triple my bit you wait for the time to even this if the stock is up 30% then also the time exploded so meaningfully he doesn’t then you know what you have to do so I see these are the ways in which I I I I think about it that a good entrepreneur okay I don’t have a lot of history with take a small bet, keep observing, keep seeing and there are many companies where I’m like okay I’m very closely watching them and they’ll be tipping point in each of them any other uh offc center bets uh listed or non-listed recently that is like a year back not recently yeah back I bought into a a company which makes medical equipment for blood management okay from the point the blood is taken out of the body to broken down into its constituents to uh uh frozen at - 80° of plasma storage this that what is so different about that business I mean diagnostic space is a very competitive space what it’s not diagnostics actually diagnostics different the the the back end infrastructure of diagnostic is a different game okay like they made I’ll just give you example of what they did this is actually interesting so the when the moment the blood is the moment the blood is taken out of your body right it has to be stored at a certain temperature now that fellow who is coming to your house to take cannot carry that freezer. But now the point the blood is taken to your from your from from from you to the point it is it is processed uh to get the the the blood loss loses its quality. Ideally the temperature should be sub 8° and not less than 2°. The reports you get say suppose the after the report get you you they’re processing the blood after seven years your report is actually tentative your blood report is tentative because they will also wait for critical number of samples to come before they start the the centrifugal machine to get the outcome right so they created that machine to do that which is this company this company called Maren it’s not listed I don’t know when it get listed my sense is couple of years uh but they have some 7 8 10 product listed on who Right. Mhm. And they to be sold to the global community. This is the Indian company which is competing with the best of the world. Both the the the founders were scientists this that these are very deep tech high-end manufacturing happening in Nashik uh prototyping product development conceptualization and some of the product they’re meeting even Germans. So, secret envelopes and all these envelopes have names. We know that this is a great it’s a great franchise extraordinary returns perhaps one of the best multibaggers in the world more than 100x in last 25 years but 5 years from now my question is where can HDFC bank pivot where will the same question we discussed where will RB allow it to pivot see the problem with bank central bank they’re too large anyways Even if they know what needs to be done, will they be allowed to do that? They will incubate some businesses and probably wish it separately. But will they? They they not this entity cannot be my personal we’ve discussed this one. This company has generally tried to pivot in my book Tata Motors from locomotive to C EVs from making cars to acquiring GLR and now growing global again. This company has pivoted. It has not pivoted successfully. But can it have a successful pivot in 3 to four years from now? If they take research very seriously very seriously and they should they can do but what will happen in that process you’ll not make money as an investor they have to also accept that they’ll not grow you have to spend this this B doesn’t get created by not spending but clear you will not make money for a few years when they are pivoting because they they I I think they delayed little before there’s a catch-up game and then then they’ll be leading. So if you ask me I think uh if they pivot it’s great for the company but I think for a few years you’ll my sense you’ll struggle as a investor in that you’re your envelopment before open mind business [laughter] but this is one of the largest carbon emitters of the world. Somebody has to question this. It’s a similar business. I understand that the business cannot change but can this company be let me ask you a question. Four years back if I said Asian paint business has to change right new guys will not you Asian painters is such a dominant guy got challenged so and now it’s not going to stop here because others are also going to once you say that okay the the the emperor is not having clothes many more are going to come. This business is a very interesting business. One of the largest emitters, one of the largest spoilers, carbon emitters, plus environment damage. And this business stayed the same because the assumption is that nothing can happen to cement. Cement is is is a commodity. It has to produce low. So there’s actually interesting example that what we are talking about the cars. I was with some academicians and they said you know in a building 70 to 80% of the weight is for building itself. It’s building is made for building not for you and me. A car is made for car because two ton carries 100 kg. So that brings me to ultra tech. Ultra tech I think this somebody will change it. I don’t know who when how because this has just stayed for like far too long. But can it really create lot of wealth for shareholders because you value like cement company based on trends cycles uh they need cost would you bet on this dull boring business. It’s not a it’s a it’s a cycle. Well it’s not a cycle actually. We have largely secular high and slow growth entities. Uh wealth will be created by maybe somebody is able to do something at a much lower cost. If somebody can disrupt the cost structure of a cement company like I think Sh cement did it once massive wealth got created in a very commoditized space it that is if the status quo of the business continues then I think they they have to focus on the cost if you can bring down the cost by a few percentage points here and there I think there’s a massive jump which happens in profitability cost can be in term of new product processes or efficiency or whatever you may call it so you know you you bring she cement example example up and I would have built on that example just looking at the but can also create value can also create value if you get in a mature business a cost disruptor okay India’s biggest IT company the business has already got disrupted a lot is changing here but looking at the cash the fact that they don’t have debt they are now expanding their arms into AI data center and also building up enterprise solutions along with applications Can TCS pivot at a speed which nobody is anticipating? Because when I read their communication public domain, the desire to pivot is there. The desire to pivot perhaps was not there 10 years ago when they were very comfortable in their own zone because they were generating a lot of cash and the time was extraordinary. Now they are on the back foot and they’re feeling the heat and now they are talking about what could change rather than what will not change. Can they pivot first? Is the business disrupted? But what is a disruption? There’s a thought that the business disrupted. The fact of life is they’re growing. They’re flat to growing. The business as we speak is not disrupted. Okay. They’re saying we’ll take less number of people for the same activity we do or maybe more activity will not recruit more people. We’ll adopt to new uh areas and methods of doing things. Um so my first take is business not disrupted that is very clear. Now second part is cash. How they use cash? I think Tata Sunsense has now since you’re talking of specific TCS let’s talk of TCS. I think TA Tata Sunsense has a lot of obligations which which they keep doing very they do exceptionally great stuff. TCS has alternatives of cash probably most of the statusely comfort assuming knows and some investor like in Bombay who has zero sense of running a sense of tech. Forget very smart guys. Yeah. Yeah. A the first problem point is that is the change there and have they agreed to change in TCS case if you read whatever they are saying they have agreed to change. Last card. Yes. Do you want to guess what it is? [laughter] actually okay it’s eternal and this is one company execution great execution how much more can they pivot is the pivot already over or they will continue to pivot because they are generating a lot of cash technology is something what they’ve understood consumer data is what they currently have and the young team which is executing at at a speed every 2 three years they’re adding a new business and a large business which could change 15 20% revenue uh in a or 15 20% revenue in a meaningful manner I think if there is one company see I have never invested in uh why is that I’m scared of losing moments but where is the company headed uh I think this company has the best data of what happens in the country I use this very fondly use everything of what they make um with this data and with this capability And with this ability to change uh I think they will be able to still deliver and in terms of I say I don’t know of the share price because I have no handle of how to look at it but just the three stacks I have the data I have the intelligence I know what’s changing at the incremental level at a larger level and I have done so many pivots and massive pivots in my assuming that they will not be able to do it again I think that’s a wrong assumption they may still be doing doing it if if you ask me this company should be able to do it again and again again my guess but whatever little is available in public I think this is a promise this can be promising company not I don’t know for the investor but in terms of what they can do and deliver you know u it’s been such an fascinating uh chat today that I’ve learned the whole idea of uh focusing on the word rate of change but more importantly how to really identify the word rate of change I may have pivoted from my old aftar a television aftar to to new digital aftar but for me I guess the real pivot has been I finally convinced you to take a pivot come out from the cave and then talk about it on a public forum [laughter] thank you very much let’s get that disclosure going once again before we wrap so all the talks we have discussed one can safely assume that I may I I may have it u I can change my mind tomorrow. So please, this none of them is a is a is a is a investment recommendation. It is not. Do your homework. Uh but it’s definitely it it it was more a framework of thinking and uh you should thank Nick to to to [laughter] take me out of but it none of them is a stock recommendation and I I virtually will be having all the stocks we discussed uh with an exception of TCS uh and none of them is a stock recommendation for sure and you’ve said it loudly and I’ll say it again on behalf of proful that uh what we’ve discussed today is just a framework of pivot investing and uh you know I think everybody is truly grateful that you’ve identified this entire rate of change into this whole framework of pivot investing. So thank you for that and uh hope to see much much much much more of you going forward on the channel. That’s too much. [laughter] That’s too much of a permission. Too much of ask.