Lloyds Metals Energy The Mega Miner Ft Rajesh Gupta

TITLE: Lloyds Metals & Energy: The Mega Miner | The Spotlight ft. Rajesh Gupta, MD, LMEL CHANNEL: Krish Kothari DATE: 2026-06-04 ---TRANSCRIPT--- I entered the business maybe when I was 10 years old and dialing phones for my father all the time. That is Rajesh Gupta.

The first Indian company to have end-to-end production from copper ore to finish copper. Rajesh Gupta is the managing director of Lloyds Metals and Energy, an over $10 billion mining behemoth. Lloyds Metals is one of the fastest-growing large metals and mining companies with interest in iron ore, steel, copper, and gold spanning global operations across multiple continents. The business has witnessed some of the most dramatic highs and lows in corporate India over the last two [music] decades. We went through very tough times. Our job at that time was to survive, and I think we did that. For every rupee you generated in FY21, just 5 years later, you now generate 68 [music] rupees. And that is why I was eager to have Mr. Gupta on the podcast to understand what has enabled this phenomenal growth, the dogged desire to achieve the ambitions, and how the business continues to expand through calculated [music] risks. Thank you for joining us as we turn the spotlight on Lloyds Metals and Energy. Why is it called Lloyds Metals and not Gupta Metals? So, in the ’70s when the company was started, ‘74 is when we got the license. We bought a license which was called Lloyd Steel Industries. The license was bought by a company called Gupta Steel and Pipe Private Limited. Lloyd Steel, we started the fabrication business in a bigger way, and that became the face of the company. Then the company’s name changed to Lloyd Steel, and then we became the Lloyd Group, etc., etc. Ever thought about changing it to Gupta or you it never mattered to you? I thought about changing my name to Lloyd, [laughter] but not the other way around. As always, nothing in this video or on this channel is a recommendation to or not to buy, sell, or hold any security. Rajesh bhai, welcome to the spotlight. It’s wonderful having you on. Thank you. I’m looking at the headline numbers for Lloyds Metals over time. And some of the numbers are just incredible. In FY 2011, so going back a bit, Lloyd’s revenue was 700 crores and profit was about 19 crores. Fast forward 10 years, FY 21, Lloyd’s Metals made 250 crores in revenue and effectively broke even at net profit level. So, over a decade, revenue declined 60% and profits evaporated. At the bottom of that entire journey, the stock fell 87% from its 2011 high. Then in FY 26, just 5 years later, the corresponding numbers are 17,000 crores and 3,800 crores. For every rupee you generated in FY 21, just 5 years later, you now generate 68 rupees. And how it takes you 128 hours to make what you made in FY 21, just 5 years later. From the COVID lows, the stock is up 400x. That is a lot to take as a spectator. What is it like going through that as a man on the field? Thanks for analyzing all these figures. I’ve never analyzed it from that depth. But yeah, we have gone through incredible journey. Uh the figures have gone up primarily they first went down because in 2011 we were supplying and were part of the Lloyd’s steel supply chain, which went away. We exited that company. So, that was a big step down for us. I was the MD of that company. And uh subsequently the as a standalone DRI maker, where on one end we didn’t have our steel plant and the other end we didn’t have our iron ore mine. Uh one we were waiting for and one just went away from our hand. We went through very tough times. Our job at that time was to survive. And I think we did that. Like you said, in 2021 we reached a figure of what we just said. Uh since then in the last 5 years our CAGR of growth has been of revenue has been around 105%. Uh PAT has been around 140%. Uh number of hours etc. very well analyzed. I I I mean I do that for other companies. I’ve never done it for myself. But yeah, uh how does it feel? Uh overwhelming in some ways. Uh because we always knew that the mine was there. Mhm. [clears throat] The mine journey, the iron ore mine that we have was licensed to us in 1993. 14 years after that Mhm. uh we got the license converted into a lease. Mhm. Uh and another years after that in 2021 the lease became uh commercially operative and possible. Uh that’s 2 1 bus. Uh 2 into 14 years is not an easy time. Yeah. One whole generation has gone. So obviously when this actually happened we started mining in 2016 in very small way. Mhm. There was a lot of uh resistance from the government at that time. Not from the government angle. They were welcoming us. They wanted us to be there. But from the safety angle, there had been some deaths in the family in the company, not in the family. Well, every individual is a family. There were 70 trucks burnt in 2017. The murders happened in 2013. So from there when we started actually mining, we were very cautious in the beginning. Uh we started with 3 million tons in the first rebirth year. Mhm. Uh within 2 years we ramped up to 10 million tons. Right now, it’s 26 million tons in this year. Mhm. One of India’s It is the India’s largest iron ore mine. Yeah. We’ll be mining around 55 million tons including BHQ. Uh we revamped our uh JORC report. From 90 million tons, we now have a reserve of 180 million tons of iron ore and 700 million tons of BHQ. Mhm. And so that’s around 450 tons, 500 million tons of usable ore over the next 45 years that the lease is balanced. So yeah, it’s been overwhelming. We’ve done a lot of hard work during this overwhelming period. And yeah, we are. When you look back at the hard times, as horrible as they may have been when you were going through them, now do you feel like no matter what comes your way, you don’t have the slightest fear of your ability to get through them? Even that time, we never had the slightest fear of getting to where we wanted to go. We knew we’d do it. Mhm. It was written that you would have The mine was not going to go away anyway. Since 2015-16, when the new MMDR Act was created, the the whole law helped us in increase our lease period from 20 years to 50 years automatically. Not automatically, we had to go through the process. And also, all mines who everlasting for earlier would start expiring by 2000 17 to 2030. Right. All the mines have expired and they would come up for renewal. At that time, the first mining leases were around 45, 55, 65%. Now it’s on a 25% premium on sales price. You mentioned the MMDR Act and we’ll get into that and why it’s such an important asset for your business in terms of your existing mines. Before we get into that, can you just briefly explain the business as it stands today and what are the different basic verticals within the company and how has that evolved in recent times? So, firstly I don’t know the mine. We are a one mine operation in Gadchiroli in Maharashtra. Easternmost part of Maharashtra. Uh we have a 350 hectares of mine there. Uh that is mining fully right now. We are around 70% 60% green mining. Uh from there and we’re doing like I said 26 million tons of finished ore. From there we’ll be uh from there we have a pipeline to our pellet plant. Uh which is operating it was put up in around 10 months of we started it. Uh 8 million tons of pellet capacity up and running. Uh happened within 14 16 months of our starting the uh ground work. That’s the Gadchiroli uh district what we’re doing. Uh in uh Chandrapur which was the original plant that revenue of 200 400 crore rupees what we’re talking was at that time around uh 250,000 tons 270,000 tons capacity. Right now we have 750,000 tons of capacity there. And we are building a next steel plant of 1.2 million tons there which will be in the long long product area. Right. Yeah, so this is where we are right now in the standalone Lloyd Metal. Apart from that uh Triveni who’s uh our partner uh uh they they acquired uh in ‘21 I think uh a substantial [clears throat] chunk of the company and over a period we have restructured that where they are a partner in the company and uh a subsidiary of the company with 80% 80% or control by the company and the uh partnership is totally joint with uh Mr. Prabhakaran. Hm. We have two MDs in the company. It’s like like we keep saying it’s a double engine uh company and uh so that has around 3,000 crores of revenue this year, I think. And so that’s one subsidiary. That subsidiary has apart from the mining in Gadchiroli, the actual mining operation. We have MDO operations in Odisha, which was the original business of Mr. Prabhakaran. We also have operation in Pakur Bari in Jharkhand, where we have a where we run the largest coal mine of NTPC. We have some operations in uh uh Indonesia. We have a bauxite mine in Andhra. We have a gold mine that we’re running, which is also partly owned by the other other parts of the group, where all the operations are being done by Triveni. And then the third subsidiary is where we just started is in copper in the DRC. Where we got two acquisitions of 49 and 51% in each of them. Surya Mines was the first one, where we have around 100 km of square kilometer of land. With reserves yet to be proven, but we think that they would be in the upper 50-60 million tons of copper. And we have one extraction mine extraction plant, where we already started copper copper production copper cathode production. The first company first Indian company to have end-to-end production from copper to finished copper from copper ore to finished copper. None of the other people there either make the concentrate or they process the concentrate. We are doing the whole thing not through the concentrate route, not through the smelting route, but through the electrolytic route. So that’s one company. The other company the larger acquisition where we have partnered with The first one is partnered with the local one of the local business people there. The second one is partnered with the US company, Vertis. And there we have two copper plants, around 53 concessions, around 250 square kilometers concessions. Proven reserves of around 170 km JORC approved report of 170 160 million tons. I don’t know the exact figure. And [clears throat] in that the copper production will start in the next 1 and 1/2 years. There we were producing copper. We have stopped it and revamping the whole thing and So both of these plants were incomplete uh the mines were there. That whole area uh Lubumbashi area in the southern part of Congo Mhm. is quite rich in copper, very active industrially and mining wise. There are 70 80 companies running. Ivanhoe is there, Glencore is there. So it’s got a uh industrial climate. Mhm. And we’re taking advantage of that. We already have around 3,000 people on ground in Congo at the moment. Mhm. Why is copper such an interesting opportunity in your mind? We are on internet right now. [laughter] We are on AI. You can’t run anything without copper or with iron or with steel for that matter. So we are in both the most important materials uh according to me which are required in the country in the world. When you mentioned that period when we were very down, Mhm. I remember traveling from my Wardha plant to Chandrapur plant and totally dejected. Mhm. Then I saw that the power tower line that is going is made of steel. Mhm. I said So I was I knew that we were in the right track. So similarly copper. Yeah, the markets are actually under underestimating the demand cycle and we’re seeing that people talked about 14,000 becoming 12,000. Still in that same range. Mhm. Uh our 14,000 and in spite of the war or maybe because of the war, we don’t know. Uh so we see that the demand uh upswing of uh with the supply constraint and any mine takes 10 to 12 years whether it’s iron ore, copper, any mineral which is a major mineral takes forever to start. And I was a prime example. Maybe it was worse because of the political scenario then. But in the world 10 12 years to start an operation is not an odd off. So that’s where we are and that’s why we think copper. We are going for one more adventure or one more study in Panguna mines in uh uh ABG which is part of Papua New Guinea. It’s going to become a separate country very shortly and we are looking at that uh in a deeper way also. What’s interesting about the different sort of business lines that you have is there’s this increasing move towards capturing more and more of the value chain that you are you know backward or forward integrating as the case may be. Can you explain why you’ve gone down that path and what do you see as the core benefits of going down that path? So I’ll go back to 1994 when we got this mine allotted. It was a backward and we had first the steel plant and we searched. We went backward to DRI and then we went backward to the iron ore mine. So this was a plan in the beginning. Unfortunately the iron ore mine didn’t happen. And then the whole project and we didn’t have a power plant. It was an incomplete project. So then that went away. So then we were left only with the DRI without a mine. Then we started the mine. So it was a thought thought out process. We are just completing it maybe 25 years later but we are doing that. As far as Sierra’s concerned, copper we went into it two three thought processes. Prabhakaran [clears throat] has been visiting Congo over the years to get contracts which were not successful. Here we saw this opportunity. People investors thought that we were one mine show risk etc. etc. Especially two years back when there was thought process of risk. Uh so that was being told to us that you’re a one mine operation. Okay. So we are de-risking the company in two three ways. One is different geography, different uh product as well as additional mines. So that’s the reason why we went into this product and we hope to continue that. Uh gold mine was allotted to Prabhakaran’s family around 15 years back. And uh our family is now part of it through Lloyd Enterprise. Which year did you join the company? 80. 1980. When I was 16 years old. And what did the company look like then? We were having two parts of the company. Yeah. No, three parts actually. We had one steel initial operation, which we wound up in ‘84. Then we had a engineering business which is still running. It’s called Lloyd Engineering Works Limited. That business is still running. It was our first business. Started in ‘74. So we are a 50-year-old startup in that way we call I call myself. And [clears throat] then we had a trading operation. Why is it called Lloyd’s Metals and not Gupta Metals? So in the ’70s when the company was started in ‘74 is when we got the license. We bought a license which was called Lloyd Steel Industries. Uh the license was bought by a company called Gupta Tubes and Pipes Private Limited. Lloyd Steel we started the fabrication business in a bigger way and that became the face of the company. Then the company name changed to Lloyd Steel and then we became the Lloyd Group etc. etc. I understand. Have you ever thought about changing it to Gupta or you it never mattered to you? I thought about changing my name to Lloyd [laughter] but not the other way around. So coincidentally we talk about names, uh Prabhakaran’s son is Surya Okay. and the company that we bought in Congo is called Surya. So it’s just a coincidence but [laughter] sometimes those work. Actually have heard of a company where they name kids after the company’s name. When you look back at the years that you’ve been and just more generally you would have seen the company even though you weren’t technically part of it. When you see where you are today at any point in those years did you think that you would be here today in terms of you know you’d have a 1 lakh crore market cap company? Was that what those I think I’ve always been my my network has always been the same. Company’s network goes up and down with time. Right? My network is what I know what my network is. I don’t care about the company’s network. I mean I do care about the company’s network. Uh we don’t work only for that obviously. Uh every industrialist I think by nature has to be the most optimistic businessman. If you’re even a little bit pessimistic you can’t put up an industry. Industry is about future. You are automatically going long. If you’re a trader when you also traders, right? Sometimes you go long, sometimes you go short. But in industry you don’t think like that. So by by nature we have been optimistic. Yeah. Um I entered the business maybe when I was 10 years old and dialing phones for my father all the time because you would not get through to long distance calls. So it’s been in the blood but uh I have never thought of the end result. I think frankly in the last uh other than the last 4 years the first 4 years of my business life I’ve always worried about the next payroll. And we’re doing very well or when we were not doing so well we always worried about the payroll. Okay, I mean not worry worry but always been key we have to make sure that uh the cash flow is good. Now touch wood the cash flows are better. And uh we are expanding at a much faster pace than I would have thought of earlier. But uh when the opportunities are there uh why not take it up? And, what have you learned about dealing with what are essentially cyclical industries? And how do you counter the bad times? What can you do during the good times to tide you over during the bad times? Which industry is not cyclical? But, would you wouldn’t you say this is more than some others? So, why is steel cyclical? Mhm. Steel is cyclical because like any other industry when the markets are good, people invest money. Mhm. And then the market become bad, the investment goes. So, it’s a 4-year cycle of operation and this cycle going down. So, this is the time of peak production, the cycle going down. So, that makes it cyclical. Number one. Number two is that you borrow. Mhm. In the good old days, we were borrowing 30 to 70 debt equity. Now, we are borrowing 1:1 of forward-looking uh uh EBITDA. Mhm. So, that itself makes me less cyclical. Mhm. When you have a borrowing, your one year one quarter one two years of bad bad operations Mhm. will make sure that you can’t pay interest. And another one year you can’t repay. Mhm. And that’s what makes it cyclical. Right? But, this is true of every industry. The The difference is that the capital costs are so much that your borrowing is more and then it comes more in the uh thrust of it. Mhm. And talking of metals, and that’s one of my favorite subjects these days, is that you are giving You guys give us a very low premium of eight nine EBITDA. I don’t know what the calculations mean, but it doesn’t make sense to me. Because it is cyclical. Mhm. Right? Mhm. Now, if that figure was changed to say even the IT business is still 16 18 Indian IT business, which is definitely in the wrong end of the cycle right now. Uh if that same CAPEX was given to us Mhm. then our debt should be much lower, right? So, then the cyclicity goes away. So, part of the reason of cyclicity is the lower market cap given by analysts like yourselves. [laughter] So, I think every business is cyclical. The the it hits the metal industry more. Because the heavy gestation and the heavy investments. You still think that I’m not talking about Lloyds. I don’t expect you to answer this question from the point of view of Lloyds, but if you look at the metal space generally, do you think people are still broadly underestimating Absolutely. how fantastic the future can be? No, they’re underestimating it compared to the other businesses. Forget the other I’m saying just if you Okay, fine. Okay, so other I mean, I won’t even call about the Zomatos and all which are 60, 70, 100 times or the pharmaceutical businesses which are 20 times our revenue. I’m not even comparing to that. Why should a traditional industry be so low valued? Whether it is auto industry or this industry, why? You can’t We have all learned that you can’t do without oil. You can’t do without steel. We can’t do without sulfur. Right? So, everything Zomato can’t work without all these things. So, why should the base on which we stand be so low valued? There’s a book by Ed Conway, The Material World. I’ll forward a copy to you. You have to read it. Okay. Seven, eight materials starting from lithium, of course. Now, everyone talks about it. Uh silica, which makes glass, which makes your solar panels or your glass for your TV. Uh iron, copper. All those are just ignored and they are all so weak structurally that every four, five years you have a shortage. Every four, five years you have an excess because of this issue. So I think everybody in the bigger cycle including the financiers, including the operators, including the miners had to understand that this is the cycle has to break. Do you think we’ve reached a point where it is important for any country, particularly the larger countries to invest heavily in these sorts of businesses just from a strategic geopolitical standpoint? Forget anything else. China does that. China does that. They are all over the place. Out of the 70 80 companies I mentioned uh DRC, I think 35 40 are Chinese. Whether they’re supported by the government or they’re just encouraged, we don’t know. Yeah, but definitely there has to be a long-term thought process. We have gone into I think OBC and NMDC tried to do coal mining in Australia. So those things have to be looked at strategically and private players like us also have to look at it from the long-term interest of the industry of the of the country as well. And how do you compare companies like yours to some of these Chinese companies in terms of scale, in terms of you know, technological capability? Micro. Technological capability is something which is let’s leave that aside. We can always get there as we any of the plan that we start whether it’s the copper plan or whether it’s the mining that we are doing like I said green mining or the steel plan that we’ll be doing will be best in the class. So that’s something that we can get as we go about In terms of scale? Very very small. But do you think you’d ever catch up or in any meaningful The world is the oyster, why not? What do you think’s holding you back? I mean I don’t mean you specifically, I mean just the industry as a whole. Uh in India or Yeah, I mean if you see that why don’t we have the I mean I know it’s not a Chinese company but a Glencore type of company. So capital. Uh ambition. and sometimes it’s also the so-called ease of doing business holds us back a little bit. All of that. Mhm. Interesting. And so again, coming back to Lloyds, I know that there’s been a lot of investment and sort of planning when it comes to technological capability, what you can actually do with the raw material that you have. Can you talk about one or two key things that you see within the business that you’ve done on that front that you think is really important from a long-term perspective? So, we had a material called BHQ, which is banded hematite quartz. Mhm. Basically, iron ore is hematite. The [clears throat] BHQ is the hematite is between the bands of quartz. Mhm. Now, quartz or silica or muddy is very, very hard. So, to crush that and liberate that requires a lot of energy, mhm, uh requires some technology. Uh we did not uh do that in India till now. When we saw our reserves, normally uh the way reserves are there in India are you have huge layers of iron ore and then below that you have hematite or the BHQ, sorry. Uh our mine was a little different. We had smaller layers of hematite than BHQ. So, we were actually to get there. That’s why the government in the ’70s when they did the survey stopped at 90 million tons. Well, after that they hit BHQ. We went down 2 300 m, which was at that time one of the deepest holes in India in the mining [clears throat] sector. And we saw that as we go down, we’re getting hematite and we’re getting BHQ. So, then when uh I give full credit to Mr. Prabhakaran, he we looked at international operations of uh in Brazil and in China, mhm, where either BHQ or BMQ is liberated, mhm, in very large ways, 25 30% uh beneficiation to go was people don’t think we are doing the right thing even now maybe. Uh we’ve been running a pilot plant. We invested very heavily in the pilot plant. Uh for the last 1 and 1/2 years, we have fine-tuned that and based on that the engineering for the full process is over. The construction for the BHQ plant has started. Very heavy investment. And over next 2 years 2 and 1/2 years 1 and 1/2 to 2 years, that plant will be up and running fully. Which will make our operations very very uh sustainable over a period. Sustainable financially, sustainable in the uh green way as well as sustainable uh land wise. You you mentioned that some people don’t agree with this decision. What has life taught you about following through on your conviction even when a lot of people disagree with you? So, we have done a lot of things which were first. We were in some of that we were the first leasing company to do car leasing. We were the first uh steel mill operator in India. We were We’ve done many firsts. Some of them have failed. Some of them have succeeded. Uh what we’re doing the different this time is we’re having the pilot plant study being done more properly so that the money investment is too big. So, we’re doing that from that angle and uh so study study study. Do more research. Whatever mistake we made in the past was maybe make decisions on the run. Yeah. We still do it on the run. For people like you, you’d say we’re going so far, but believe me the thought process is now so deep Mhm. and so thought of in the future Yeah. that we are very very That’s one big learning lesson is that. Number two is control your debt. Until 2 years 2 and 1/2 years back we were saying zero debt zero debt. That’s not possible because the opportunities are just coming to us. We could not have done the Congo uh business without debt. So, we are controlling our debt in a very very deep way and we hope to Those are the two things that we have learned at least I have learned You have a large team now within the company that is focused primarily on these sorts of newer technologies or kind of make breakthroughs in how things can be done. So, so like I just said you just talked about this. We as a family between the two families we have seven eight promoters. Each is working in different areas of the business and each of them each of us are working on how to innovate, how to look at the best strategy on whatever we are doing. And how to extract maximum bang for the buck. There are many many professionals in each area. For example, in LEW we are looking at drone or we are looking at defense We have been in defense for the last uh since I I don’t remember 84. Right? But, you know, in a very small way. We’re looking at that in a bigger way. Um What Sorry, what specifically within defense? We have been in the naval area where we have been supplying equipment to navies and navy ships coast guard and navy ships which are called stabilizers and steering gear. Okay. So, now we’re doing more naval equipment for that kind of ships. Plus, like I said mentioned drones and other things that we are you know, continuously studying. We have started a new subsidiary. We hope to go into that in a bigger way very very soon. As you see things today, what do you see as primary constraints to I mean I mean I know you’re growing so it’s I can’t say a constraint to growth. What are some of the troubles that you face today? Is is energy an issue? So, if you talk about uh specifically in the steel business uh the only thing that is not in our chain to that if you look at steel you have iron ore, which obviously we have. You have coal, cooking coal, or thermal coal, which we don’t have. Uh, you have capital where we have reduced our cost of capital by the various methods that I just mentioned. We have transport where we got control by pipeline, so we reduce our logistic cost. Uh, so all of that put together the one thing that is not specific is the cost of energy, cost of coal, and the cooking coal. In energy itself, we are uh, going for uh, uh, we have gone for solar power, wind power, and yesterday we signed one more LOI for some more additional green power. So, over a period at least next 3 years, 60-70% of our power power requirement, not coal requirement, power requirement would be in the green area. A sustainable area, so we are taking steps. Uh, if you look at the more abstract picture, what is holding us back? The same thing that I mentioned earlier, fear. Okay, if you go too fast, what happens? Do you think you become less risk or have you become more risk averse with time? Uh, when you get wealthy, you get more risk averse, don’t you? [laughter] So, no, we are not risk averse, but uh, more risk studying before we take it up. If you were risk averse, you would not be going to Congo and to ABG, right? No, very true. I mean, I it’s a it’s it’s it’s interesting that, you know, we I mean, there’s so many companies that we look at, and very few company Indian companies that is tend to have meaningful operations outside India. Is that something across industries? So, it’s interesting when I see somebody who is expanding globally, and of course, the nature of business requires that. But other than the ones that you mentioned already, are there other areas of the world that you think are potential I mean, I know there’s a lot on your plate, but if you see anything else you could do? now we are saying to ourselves that we are our plate is full. If you ask me a year from today after ABG starts up, I don’t know what we’ll say. And what do you see as your primary role within the company today? Are you focused primarily on big picture? Are you very involved in day-to-day activities? very lost on what I’m doing every day. Yeah, so one particular thing that I’m doing is handling the commercial aspect of the iron ore and coal and I mean the sales part of it. Mhm. The commercial part of it. One is being the so-called face or part of the face of the company and looking at the the compliances, etc. Mhm. I say that whatever else nobody else wants to do, I do it. We have Mr. Prabhakaran handling the mining side, his son is handling the Congo side. Mhm. Um My son handles the one of the steel plants. Um my brother handles the finance and he’s everybody’s boss. Mhm. My uncle is the chairman, I vice chairman now. He’s on the way to retirement. He’ll never retire, but yeah. Right. My other nephew looks at the LED bulb business. Everybody Mr. Prabhakaran’s brother looks after Triveni. Mhm. So everybody’s got their own particular area. I don’t I have no particular area. So Got it. I would love to do a blog like you. [laughter] You should. It’s a it’s a One of my hobbies is to write reviews, film reviews. Oh, really? Yeah. What’s what’s your favorite film of all time? Of all time? Oh, just something you two or three that you Mughal-e-Azam is the one that I remember right now. Godfather, Sholay, many. Yeah, one of the favorite serials is uh [clears throat] Breaking Bad. Oh, interesting. Interesting. Very interesting. Like you you actually write reviews? Three, four paras once in a blue. Like you have a blog where you publish this? No, it’s on Insta. Ah, okay. I see. Please follow me. [laughter] Please I’ll I’ll Yeah, please put the sticker. Okay, very interesting. Very interesting. And you know, so I I think you sort of done a good job explaining the business and how you look at it and all of that. It so happens that we as we mentioned earlier that we’re 50 years for Lloyds. Let’s fast forward a little and look at the next 10, 20 years to the extent that we can. What can happen that 20 years from now you would say, “Okay, we did our jobs well.” I think if the group is a perpetual one, say for the example the Birla group. Mhm. Seven, eight generations running. Mhm. Like maybe one or two families are still very active in that group, but there are seven, eight generations. The job never gets done. If Kumar Babu can look at buying a cricket team at this when you always against all these fancy businesses. Sorry to use the word fancy. But you have to innovate. So I don’t think the job will ever get done. I hope the next generation never gets the job completes the job. We have to make sure my job and my my generation’s job is to make sure that everybody sticks together as a long-term business. What do you think is the most important advice you can give to the next generation in the company? Be innovative. Be little risk-taking. Little risk-taking. And be together. Do you think that’s that’s really it that as long as everybody ultimately is one all together. More than the being together, your energy is not spent in looking at different ways of how to get away from this and that and things like that. So that energy is all well spent. I think that’s the biggest advantage of being together. And I’ll end with one question on you if you and I’ll ask you to reflect on your own journey. If you had to attribute your success to one or two key characteristics, what would they be? Number one is being together. If in those bad years from 19 from 1999 to 2021, 20 years when we had we didn’t know what we were doing. Or people thought we didn’t know what we were doing. If you had not been together with my brother, my uncle the kids were not yet in the picture. He was studying with you. So, at that time if we had not been together it would have been very easy to disperse, right? And we don’t know what would have happened. So, that’s one very very important takeaway that I have. Answer well, Rajesh bhai. Absolutely wonderful having you on. I hope this was as much fun for you as it was for me. Thank you so much.