Session 1 The Solar Surge Surat Se Sooraj Tak

Continuing with the same energy, Surat where the spirit of entrepreneurship runs deep makes it the perfect place for us to host the Dhando Valley event. The event is about connecting ideas to investments, exploring opportunities and discussing emerging themes. We have divided the session into various panels of discussion where we have invited promoters from different industries and investors to share their journey and the understanding of the business. But together let’s explore a day filled with inspiration, knowledge and opportunities. Before we move forward, let’s take a moment to honor late Mr. Rakkesh Junjunwala, an esteemed investor and late Mr. Ratant Tata, an esteemed industrialist. We have lost two titans in the last two years. Please join me in a heartfelt round of silence to honor their incredible legacy. Diamond Solar Chemical Transformer Industries. One of our investment companies from this city has announced its IPO recently. Yes, it’s a proud moment for all of us to acknowledge the IPO announcement of Vari Energies Limited, a leading name in the solar energy sector. The company has grown from 2 gawatt to now 13.3 gawatt in a span of 3 years. It’s a remarkable achievement for all of us. We are extremely delighted to be a part of this investment journey with VI Energies Limited. So let’s get started our first session which is the solar surge surajak where we will focus on how solar energy is shaping the future of power generation. I would like to invite our first panel of speakers from the solar sector. We welcome Mr. Ankit Singh Mr. Ankit Singhana Mr. Chira Nakrani Mr. Hardi Kortya Mr. Chaitan Sha Mr. Shahid Dul Hassan and Mr. Mahesh Shamanojam. Please join us on the stage. Mr. Ankit Singha, co-founder and director of sales and procurement at Navita Solar, a solar module manufacturing company based out of Sur with over a decade of experience in real estate and solar energy sector. He has an in-depth understanding of solar module manufacturing process, industry practices and trends. He also manages company supply chain management and global level. Mr. Chip Chira Nakrani, co-founder and managing director at Raison Solar, a solar module manufacturing company. Mr. Chira has over seven years of experience in various facets of solar industry including technical plannings, sales, international business development and marketing. Mr. Hardi Kotia, co-founder and managing director at Raison Solar. He has over seven years of experience in actively managing key businesses activities like strategic planning, production and international businesses. Mr. Chaitan Sha, chairman and managing director at Solex Energy, a photovaltttech module manufacturing company. Mr. Chaitan has served as the youngest president of the Southern Gujarat Chamber of Commerce. Thank you so much everyone to be here uh early in the morning and uh the topic itself is interesting. Surat say suraj uh I’ll start with the same question uh what has happened in our city which is so unique uh that we’ve have all the giants you know in and around 100 kilometers of sur right the whole ecosystem of solar has come up so beautifully in our city and it is something in the city of course we have diamonds leaders of the world textile again leader in the country so uh how do you think this ecosystem got developed in our city and what have you all uh done to develop because you have made that ecosystem right all stalwarts are here of the city so one by one if you can all uh uh tell us that uh how you’re taking it forward that ecosystem because if we’ve seen across various industries where ecosystem has got developed in a area it then you know takes forward for multiple decades so what you are making sure to ensure that that remains here because ODSI is giving a tough fight Right. New capacities are coming over there. Uh cell capacities are coming over here. And we all know that cell is critical going forward for every module manufacturer to backward integrate into which I guess Orisa is leading the race right now in terms of the new capacity additions being announced. So one by one if all of you can take this question. So very good morning to all and uh I’m really happy to uh have this kind of session. And I think this is a first in Surat and uh uh you know the names which are like you know displayed here Nvesh Aai and Dando I think that’s something which is uh uh quite most relevant to the city of Surat and the first session again surak I think that’s very unique title and this actually this is the most relevant title it’s because the surat is on on the bank of river Tapi and Tapi is a Surya Putri right? So basically we are all like you know the family and you know child of Surya only we call it we call ourselves as a suryani. So I mean you know anything which relates to solar or surya I mean Surat has a surat is the most appropriate place you have a competitive advantage. So Surat we have more blessings from uh Lord Surat Surya and that’s why the Surat has uh done wonders not only in uh I mean traditionally Surat is known for textile and uh diamonds and chemical and uh so on. So in textile manmade fiber Surat is you know the highest producer of fabric in diamond yes everyone knows the history in terms of solar panel also Surat basically you know is number one city in the country where the capacity of the I mean the more than 50% capacity that lies in I mean the production capacity is in from sur so I think uh there is no other reasons but we are all like you know surya and That’s the reason the uh so I think I don’t have any other uh best answer to uh uh uh you know to give you but yes uh the thing is uh I mean just very briefly because all we’ll have some other uh you know reason to say but uh I think sur is a place which is uh geographically which is very very important it’s located somewhere where which is very close to the port and all other infrastructure we are in a capital item business and then you know the infrastructure is something which is very very important so I think Gujarat is the best place and then the no other place uh than Surat in Gujarat for this kind of industry so uh when it comes to model manufacturing we are leading and now basically the way uh the other companies are expanding uh I mean they’re doing their backward integration I think Surat will continue its journey as uh as a leader in terms of the solar panel uh solar product manufacturing. Good morning to all of you. Uh it’s pleasure. It’s my honor to be a part of this uh distinguished panelist. I’m the only person who is uh uh not from the manufacturing background but from system integration. Uh Surat as Chetani said. So first of all uh uh you know the sunrise starts the day and good that you are starting your program uh uh from the business which starts with uh uh sun and suraj and suryutra. So, Surata as a city has been historically uh like uh from entrepreneurship it is ingrained in in our DNA and uh what I call uh that business is in blood of so that’s in the blood actually and Surat has always been uh on the forefront uh and and numerous you know you know position number one position take uh diamond for example 90% of the world diamond is uh being given by Surat think of textile Manchester of India used to be Ahmedabad but somehow Surat snatched it from Ahmedabad and now Surat is uh the biggest hub uh in in this region in entire Asia And good thing is that not only manufacturing but trading hub also and uh now third thing which has happened is this uh solar in entire country whatever be the capacity total capacity around 40% is in Gujarat and out of 40% probably 60% is in sur I mean alone for example as it is mentioned right now 13.3 gawatt then gold sole X, Navitas, Raison, uh so many companies. So, Surat you know it it is actually in the DNA of SI to take up latest technologies, do something for society, do something for the world, earn the money and improve the uh you know uh living standard of of the people. So as far as surah is concerned uh one more thing I would like to add that when rooftop is started Jeda used to be the nal agency but Surat is the only Surat municipal corporation is the only municipal corporation in our state which took up as a second nodal agency and they wanted to uh collect all the documents from the sort do the corrections so that it reaches to Jada and the application doesn’t get rejected so that’s the reason because of which every rooftop now you will find that it is decorated with uh uh solar panels. So that’s all as of now. Uh I’m sure other people would add something and then I’ll come back. Thank you. Thank you. Good morning everyone. Uh we get up in the morning we see ourselves in the mirror. What do we see? We see a businessman and that is why Surat is uh going up. uh regarding solar as uh Chetan by rightly said uh more than 50% of India’s production and I think soon it will cross 70% of entire India’s production will be happening in and around Surat. Uh every Indian every company in Surat is expanding 10 times of the current capacities. uh we are uh located in a very right position. The biggest market in solar industry is in the is in West India basically Rajasthan, Gujarat and Maharashtra. We are able to cater to these markets in a much much better and efficient way than what any other state can do. Again uh our state our state policies our government systems uh no headache of unions which happens in other states all these factors contribute uh to us expanding so rapidly. Thank you. Good morning everyone. [Music] Diamond number one. Yes. Middle of India. Okay. uh logistic wise in terms of north and south government support I guess this is the mixion match ecosystem no thank you so much I guess uh So again I mean if you look at industries I guess the culture is very important. Uh as all of you have said that if you look at various products Surat has brought down cost by 80 90% be textile all fabrics were made around the country Bihar say Madhya Pradesh say Haraga say fabrica cost we brought down by 90 95% and we became the leader. So uh in diamond I mean no one can match the kind of cost curve that are there and now in solar. So kind of a mini China we are running over here in Surat I guess. So many industrialists are here, many investors are here. So you can do the matchmaking and start some industries over here. Uh our city is blessed with the kind of cost curves that it can bring down. I always keep on promoting to promotion question. Anyways, so moving forward again everyone has uh you know aggressive plans as uh you know Ankit was saying or listed 5x 10 and this is an industry China they over the past you know maybe 10 15 years they were nowhere in the solar map to being the leader in the world beat solar glass right nowhere on the world map thus salme Germany all over the world the plant shut down only two plants in the world survived one near Borosil and one other in Germany right be it any ancillary industry related to solar uh China has been the behemoth right now we are saying that boss we are going to expand what China in a manner or fashion which China did uh having 10x capacities here we don’t have a support of the government as such with China has right so what in so of course the policy has you know maybe made this change uh you know in the last couple of years where the government has promoted ALMM schemes which are encouraging you because the profitability has gone up but what else do you think would be sufficient for you to do a 10x and you know uh repeat the journey or maybe you you know follow the journey which maybe China did or maybe create your own journeys because maybe those cost curves has a role for the government also to play here maybe that is not represented that well so how are you planning your expansions and how are you looking at the uh you know expansion going forward in terms of competition I know you all are friends offstage but are also competitors in a way so how do you feel that this huge capacity which is uh going to come up is going to stack up against each other. India question. Yes. So first of all congratulations for such a wonderful event because putting together an event like this is very very hard. So I wish you more events to come so we can have more active dialogue on this process. Uh actually you know I live in the US so my lens is slightly different and I’m sure Chetan will amend it. uh the most important thing that I think we should be thinking about is not benchmarking China against cost uh capacity doing this import export that’s all very short-term thinking I think that’s what this Surat community does best so that’ll get optimized I don’t think that’s the biggest challenge the real challenge is quality how do you drive quality on the ground and I was talking to Chaitanany by about two weeks three weeks ago in the airport and the biggest thing he talked about discipline, governance, building the practices if you recall sir and most importantly really really training the people to think about quality because what will should not happen is what happened in America about 10 years ago if you look up the story of cylindra it was an embarrassment for embarrassment for President Obama because the company failed when the company fails doesn’t matter which company fails but when that company fails you are going to shake the market confidence so So we should all we are sitting on the floor here as a industry leaders. So we are transforming industry. Why this is important? We are getting to a clean energy environment by 2070. But there is a contradiction that we have got vixit bar agenda by 2047. How can you be a vixit barat without being a clean energy barat? If you don’t link it then you’re not thinking this correctly. So I think quality capacity and most importantly competency. Competency meaning innovation. So what we should learn from China is we should learn how to innovate faster, bigger, smarter. That is going to transform the lives of so many Indians. So that’s the way I would start this conversation. Thank you so much. Let’s look from the ecosystem and uh uh the dream or vision of uh our honorable prime minister and once the head of the country gives a commitment to United Nations or the world that becomes the commitment of every Indian right so we are here to fulfill that dream for two reasons number one that this is a commitment that has been given by our uh head of the country and number two it is a must matter of survival it is a matter of sustenance sustainability so as far as competition that you mentioned I’m the only person who is not competing with anybody so probably I’ll be I’ll be in a better position to you know I’m in a very balancing position that so what I would like to say is that the pi is quite big. Think of 500 gawatt. That’s the number which uh is our target by 2030. All of us know about it. Out of that we have completed only about 150 gawatt. If I take uh wind and solar both put together along with biomass. uh if I put hydro it becomes 211 gawatt as of 10th October to be more precise but let’s concentrate to solar alone out of this 500 gawatt 280 gawatt is earmarked for solar that means and we have completed just 90 gawatt so 280 minus 90 is about another 200 gawatt that we need to do and years left are five right that means every year we will have to do approximately 40 to 50 gawatt as a target of solar I’m talking about execution see as far as installed capacity of the plants are concerned and the monthly production that happens usually the monthly production is 50 to 60% correct me if I’m wrong. But if it is around 50 to 60% of uh the stamped capacity when we say worry is 13.3 gawatt annually they would be producing anywhere around 5 to 6 gawatt anybody having 6 gawatt of uh installed capacity it would be 50 to 60% only that is being done so point I’m trying to make is that the pi is quite big everybody has got its own share to contribute so every year we are supposed to to 40 gawatt. Coming to Gujarat alone, Gujarat is always on the forefront on everything including renewable energy, we all uh are aware that uh the potential of Gujarat from solar p perspective is about uh 45 gawatt 46 45 gawatt uh and both put together solar as well as wind. The potential of Gujarat is 180 gawatt. Out of 180 gawatt we have completed only about uh 26 gawatt. So nothing right not even uh uh 15 16 18%. So another 85% is to be done Gujarat alone. And that’s the reason that Gujarat has taken a target out of 500 gawatt Gujarat and SIS will do 100 gawatt of renewable by 2030 that’s the target that Gujarat has taken right and Kawa alone that AR uh solar park as well as wind park AR park is 30 gawatt of renewable capacity is being developed there. So all the big parties have taken a target and I’m happy to announce that my group our our KP group your group actually has also taken a target that to fulfill the dream of honorable prime minister of 51 gawatt we have taken a call that we will contribute 2% of that at least so 10 gawatt minimum will be the contribution of KP in in in this 500 gawatt by 2030. 30. Similarly, there are other companies. Let me take the names also. Uh Adani recently Goautamhai announced that their contribution will be 45 gawatt in Ahri. Um our MKkesh bayani he has declared about 40 gawatt. Then NTBC is planning to do about 60 plus gigawatt and most of them they are planning to do in in Gujarat because Gujarat is a godgifted state if you take from radiation perspective or if you take from uh wind perspective out of 7,600 uh coastal area 1,600 coastal region is given by God to Gujarat alone. Right. So onshore and offshore both we are planning. In fact offshore announcement has already come. I’m sure you would be aware. So there is about 36 gawatt of offshore is being planned uh in another let’s say four to five years. So point I’m trying to make is that there is a huge pile and everybody will have to contribute to that and this is for our own survival that we need to do. I guess also from radiation’s perspective Gujarat but stock market perspective as well all all have to develop those capacities because everyone is getting rewarded in the markets the these days if you know your uh execution and KP has done all of you who have listed are doing that and maybe people who will get listed in the future are doing that so I guess Gujarat has a stock market perspective as well so uh another point raised was uh 500 uh gawatt of capacities I’ll disagree with that. Uh frankly with the new power tariff uh renewable plus storage system is now costing lesser than fuel energy be it coal be it thermal whatever it’s costing lesser. So basically renewable will be will be replacing your regular power source. So in that sense the scope and the speed at which we have to grow will be much faster. We have to replace fossil fuel now and we are we are competing them in and beating uh fossil fuel in cost now. So uh again every single person will now be looking and using fossil fuel in the coming uh renewables in the coming future. uh one point raised by Arind was about the capacity increase and uh how we’ll be able to survive and compete with China. Uh it is a known fact we will need some protections from the government but the scale and the processes now which all the manufacturers here are following these are world-class processes. We are competing with the with the best of the world now. Our automations levels are worldclass. Um completely automized, completely robotics. Uh again uh our market will not be just India in the coming future. We will be the market for the world. Uh people are shying away from China and I think uh Surat especially has a place uh which will replace China for the global market. uh well I think that’s more relevant uh question which is thrown here that uh the kind of capacity which is being announced and and expanded and so basically you know there will be a lot of internal competition against a business which is fixed in fact you know uh the 500 megawatt target Indian target which we are talking right and out of which maybe 60% will the solar. In fact, you know, uh I think two years be uh ago in one of uh conference, I mentioned that 500 gawatt is not a sufficient target for India. India has a potential to do 1,000 gawatt. So during that conference like couple of people they like you know they did not like my idea of thousand gawatt and uh now what happens like you know last month there was a discussion uh in one of a conference by the government PSUs that how to increase that 500 gawatt to 750 gawatt uh by 2030 only. I mean you know it’s not that by uh 2035. So uh 1,000 gawatt is not a far away for India and which is doable. Now if it is a thousand then if you can highlight on this point this is a wonderful point because what what target was made was assuming certain you know power uh price uh certain demand for power and certain maybe learning curve that the Indian manufacturing industry would achieve. Now here in 2024 I guess we are all surprised by a the power demand that this country will have or all countries around the world will have because of AI you know mechanization or factories whatever whatever industry you’re talking about EV everything is power intensive right second the cost curve that we’ve achieved over here again no one imagined that India would have such huge capex in solar in s such a short span of time and now we’re looking at even more right so considering these What do you think these updated numbers should be? And the the point that Ankit told that now with the prices of you know storage going down you can have a combination of these two which can replace your you know thermal or 24-hour electricity by that combination. So these factors will will have to change the target right. So basically why the thousand gawatt target which I uh thrown uh two years back uh like we are trying to convert our existing fossil fuel capacity to the non- fossil fuel capacity that is one of the target and keeping uh that in mind we have set a target of 500 gawatt which was 100 gawatt earlier right now basically if you look at the CC website and their data the consumption of electricity which was traditionally uh uh increased by 3% uh annually which has increased to now 9%. 3% to 9%. Which is equivalent to 30 gawatt that means India is increased the consumption by 30 gawatt perom the forecast is that will go to almost about 12 to 14% that means 45 gawatt. So if you if you are adding consumption of 45 gawatt annually where will you get it from and when we are focusing on a non-fossil the I mean the majority is the solar right 7 60 70% will be uh come from solar and that’s the reason I said like you know the target of thousand gawatt is the right target for at least coming 15 years for India and which is achievable challenge is that how come There is so many capacities because I keep getting these questions every day that when we are India is talking about 100 gawatt of module manufacturing and which is almost about 70 gawatt right now 70 plus gawatt and which will become a 100 gawatt then where will you dump this product like you know we don’t have that much consumption here so uh rightly said I mean hassan gi like we have a name plate capacity and the actual achievable capacity before 2019 we used to celebrate if we touch 40% of our capacity utilization you know so there was a party like you know we have done 40% of our capacity because there was a lot of import coming from China now India can all manufacturers can think of achieving 75 80% efficiency just because of the two support the tariff barrier which is BCD and the non-tariff barrier which is ALM 2019 Indian cumulative capacity module manufacturing ing capacity was 6 gawatt and if you discount this two years of COVID then just in two years time India has increased this capacity from 6 gawatt to 70 gawatt which is operational now China has not done this China has done this massive but in after so many years of you know support and this thing just by having this two small support India has added this capacity And now there is no need of there is no one is shouting like that we need we are not getting modules and we are not getting quality modules. India has actually Indian developers they they were serviced by Chinese manufacturers of for so many years. So they have a habit of you know uh having a services like Chinese companies like scale the speed and lot of things for us the challenge is now those who will able to develop this kind of scale efficiency continuity and consistency in a business they will survive with supported by the backward integration that’s something which is very important for us we cannot just be a model manufacturer we have to have a cell wafer poly inard poly silicon everything uh in house and when it comes to the dependency on China we can definitely reduce it but yes with the support of China so normally I on a lighter side I always say hindi chini bye-bye the slogan which was there I think that will help us so of course we do not want to be dependent but the way they have developed and the way they have scaled up this industry I think there is a lot to learn from them and I openly I would say I mind like you know uh praising them in public but because they have done wonders. So I think this is the way India can scale up and Indian cost the Indian manufacturing cost if you look at the last standard which was a like you know GIPCL tender I think there was a competition between Indian companies and Chinese company and Indian company was cheaper than the uh Chinese bid. So I think what else we want? So on on that front I mean uh uh so I will want to pay play maybe you know a tug of war between you know the EPC guy and the module manufacturers because they are pulling the policy towards boss why there should be restrictions we should get modules without restriction at cheaper cost and you would be you know in the policym wanting to push for more protection so that the profitability comes for expansion and R&D and you know backward integration so the policy has shaped very nicely towards you know maybe giving that kind of ecosystem for the module manufacturers to give them a shot becoming backward integrated becoming more uh you know scalable players but do you think uh that the policy can have bumps around the corner or what in your interaction you know Hassan Bay or or Chaitan by or Mah yeah anyone can contribute in this question but what I want to understand that when you are having meetings you know push to reduce the prices of the panels for you know more projects to happen. So how do you uh you know maneuver those challenges in regulatory challenges? Uh well so basically uh [Music] debate or justifications justifications for that basically solar power market IP that is in the range of somewhere about 2.5 to 3 rupees right tariff I think which was quite unneatured transmission and other discom cost which is much much reasonable cost nowadays. So with the Indian modules, Chinese or Indian modules price difference, Chinese modules are actually subsidized modules supported by the export subsidies and the other manufacturing subsidies. So inorganic price Chinese company if they are selling solar cells at 3 or 3.2 two cents. So they are not happy. They are making losses losses which is not there in India historically. So we have to be very competitive very efficient in terms of a costing. In spite of all these India has achieved that. So basically complain because so I think the IPS are also earning the model manufacturers are also earning manufacturing 2015. So basically at that time that means capacity I think ecosystem manufacturers manufacturers and all are like having a good business junction box manufacturer zero back sheet aluminum frame everything is being manufactured in India I think improvise we don’t need support for lifelong I still remember just if you allow me to one more minute uh I’m in IT business for 34 years now I started started in 1990. We are ready to support you. You give us a list of your requirement on a lighter side. Please stay away from us. No industry can grow lifelong with the government support. It has to be self- sustaining. You are wrong. US has failed in that way. situation. So India so business can we can plan our business in a sustainable way. How we can survive without it? It is a bonus. So basically model support non-tariff barrier is needed to scale up scale up you become a competitive then you compete with global other players also. I think you need to maintain a balance between uh the two actually. Uh coming to this DCR module I was discussing with Chetan. So with my special uh uh link with you know all the manufacturers I could manage at a lower cost but otherwise it is 22 to 23 rupees per watt that I’m getting one panel right now compared to 23 rupees the nondcr is at 13 rupees that means 10 rupees per watt is the gap of DCR and nondcr DCR means dot IC domestic content requirement that means everything should be like cell should be manufactured in India. So that panel is called DCR and if the cells are from China then those are nondcr. See the difference 10 rupees per watt means in one megawatt the difference is 1 k rupees and today 1 megawatt is being implemented at 2.5cr. So if in 2.5 CR nondcr is being implemented if I go for DCR it become 3.5 CR 33% cost 30% extra cost or even more than that I need to pay so there has to be a balancing if I pay that high naturally the cost of production LCOE levelized cost of energy goes high so there has to be some balancing because on one hand we want to do 500 gawatt by 2030 and 1,000 gawatt in future inshallah at the same time I mean if there is a DCR content kind of binding which is required restrictions are being imposed then there will be uh uh the speed breaker that you mentioned the pumps would come in achieving that target while the other side is that India can’t always depend upon China and and other comp countries I mean We have to finally stand on our own legs. So our own manufacturing also will have to become world class not only for the domestic requirement but we should be in a position to export also. So finally there is some support that is required just down sections. So constitution has given them some uh you know uh security in terms of uh uh reservation. So similarly some arrangement has been done and it is needed but government has been supporting a lot actually if you think uh from allocation perspective 20,0007 uh 24,000 cr rupees so $2.9 billion has been allocated for PLI for uh high efficiency cells as well as solar panel manufacturing 20,700 cr it is about 2.5 5 billion has been allocated for ISTS trans u strengthening so that green corridor can be built and and power uh manufactured in Rajasthan and and uh in in Kaj could be transported across the country. Similarly for battery that we spoke for battery there is 9,400 cr allocation which government has done. It’s $1.1 billion because battery as he rightly mentioned it is a bit expensive at this point of time. I’m struggling for my storage cost is coming out to be around 8 rupees per unit. So if a storage cost is 8 rupees per unit, it is not sustainable. Unless it comes down to around 2 to three rupees, it it’s going to be difficult. But finally, that’s the reason the BESS is not taking off. So there is a support required by government and government is supporting from that perspective. Similarly your green hydrogen is going to be the fuel of the future the the one of the I mean the smallest element in the world but going to be the gamecher in the storage capacity. Remember hydrogen is not a source of uh energy but it is a storage actually. So around 20,000 cr has been allocated for for that also. So government has been supporting but finally the bottom line is that we will all have to stand on our own feet if we really want to compete with the world. Thank you so much uh Ankit. Uh if if I can just elaborate on what Hazan said that there’s a difference of 10 rupees. Yeah. Right. 23 rupees if there’s a DCR module versus 13. Leaving the profits aside, what do you think is the cost differential that is that is still remaining to be achieved? Uh, of course profitability cycles would correct itself over the coming years. But if you look at if you can break down because I I know you do a lot of component analysis. already achieved maybe some competitiveness with China and hence the differential might go away or still sell we are making strides but it will take time that ecosystem is getting developed but other components are also important for bringing down that cost where all you think we’ve achieved that and where we will achieve in the coming two years so uh speaking about cell first uh again as chayan rightly suggested uh Chinese manufacturers are losing money right now and the government is supporting them. Again, what the Indian uh companies are charging is exceptionally high. uh but we need to give them that leverage for few years so that they can grow they can talk about conversion cost again speaking to all the manufacturers in India also uh they are getting a cost of close to six to seven cents. So percent margin but because it’s a technological product and it keeps on changing very fast these guys need to make that sort of money [Music] and going ahead with ecosystem being developed our engineers being much more trained India So again um our engineers are getting trained their skills are getting improved. I think this cost also will come down and I think will come to a a reasonable cost parity with reasonable margins. Polysilic again that’s Chinese price only because wafer so our conversion cost is 3 cents no uh so u I think in China if I’m not wrong uh 1 and a half cent is the wafer cost and uh another 2 cents is the conversion cost for them so 3 and a half cent is their cost and they’re selling at 3 3.2 2 cents they’re losing money. Um wafer cost is quite similar. The other manufacturing cost in India is much higher. Yeah. Number one R&D unless you establish your own R&D research and development in-house uh uh research in-house development and that has to be a very high-tech I mean on the forefront of the technology. you will always be lagging behind uh the other countries. So this is one thing that we need to do and industries like manufacturing industries we have nits right we have international reput reputed industry reputed institutions talent there’s no t of talent as far as India is concerned only thing is that they needed to be supported so if industry supports them funds them I’m sure down the line take three years or five years we will be much better than China, China was quite poor. I mean they have invested in their manpower in in R&D and now they are there. So this is one thing that we as a country need to invest in R&D. Second thing is of course the scale part the volume part. So unless we scale it up at a larger level and there are big groups which have announced which are announcing and as you rightly mentioned today everybody is talking about 10 gawatt 20 gawatt while we when we started we talking about 500 megawatt that used to be a big capacity one line two lines used to be big capacity but today everybody is talking in terms of uh you know multiple of 5 gawatt so is scaling the business so these are two things in in my opinion which are going to make make you more competitive and then only the cost would come down. Yeah. So scale I guess I uh you know there is one player in the industry which has proven what scale can bring to the ecosystem and you all are now aiming for those scales right uh gold I was hearing sir that we are aiming to add almost 9 gaw you know in the coming uh maybe even one year right and that’s a large number we we could not imagine in India that that can be or maybe you know raison navitas all are raising money so just gave a target you’re a public company So, so I I don’t know how much you can speak but you this this is now in public domain but all of you have you know targets which uh were unthinkable for the whole ecosystem to have and now individually you guys all are planning and I was just looking at raison numbers and you know we looking at a negative working capital business which is phenomenal. If you look at we used to love these businesses working capital the combination is good but then the competition you know maybe scares you a bit individually if you can answer on the scale part that how you’re achieving this scale that you all have you know whether in public or or other domains you know been highlighting and and and if that timeline is being achieved then what are the you know uh overall all uh you you can say eventual five years runway that you feel that individually you guys can achieve. I think that is a very interesting question to start you know maybe because 314% growth so Chetan knows for 13 years you did 3 gawatt yeah 3 gawatt and next 6 8 months is nine more and then calls me at 2 a.m. in the morning and says we are going to 11 gawatt right and he goes in the morning and gets a space blocked so I think uh uh the most important part is policy clarity has enabled that I think last year was a tough year I was not involved in the process but you all know this it was a tough year for the industry and I think policy clarity is very important clarity has been brought very clearly and the demand has exploded and the scaling effect is that there is capital in the market right there is capital in the market what people need is certinity clarity and of course this type of cost precision confidence that we will develop a good ecosystem so that investors who are thinking long term will take a bet right and they all know that clean energy is the future and it has been the future for a long time so I think from a scaling point of view opportunity point of view these are all real numbers right sne 500 gawatt and uh and right now 500 gawatt of quality is needed I keep reminding everybody why because it’s not a it’s not for the faint audit because the favorite question I answer all the time is this much capacity is coming in so many players are coming. I said you cannot just put everybody in one group not everybody has perfected the art of performance correct output efficiency. So from that perspective I think it’s a long-term view you have to take in this business and when you’re taking that view uh people who are willing to put that kind of capital wait and earn it they are going to obviously make the barriers and it’s a growth business right from that perspective. So that’s the way we are approaching uh scale. Scale is from the confidence that the market tells us we can play and stay. That’s what it is. Thank you so much. Yeah. Uh last one thing to add here. Everyone has announced big plans like everyone has a big capex plan but we are seeing a lot of uh players are facing challenges in execution of capacity. So what are challenges there and uh how you see like we can have a capacity of 20 25 gawatt kind of cell capacity in how many years and what are the challenges in capex everyone is facing. Uh I still remember the time in 200910 where we approached to the bank to for the funding to set up the model manufacturing line. We approached six banks out of six bank four banks refused. They said the uh solar model manufacturing is in our negative list. So we cannot fund you. And then hardly one bank we could convince them and then you know they fund funded us in 2019 10. Reason was that price came down from 140 rupees to 43 rupees at that time in just very six month time slot. So you know I we have gone through that phase of you know the shortage of fund that nobody were willing to fund the project negatively and those kind of things we have heard and now the day I mean the time has changed like you know I mean the way you people have supported us and support in a willing to support us now in future journey I think the whole game is changed now and check yeah So basically this is this was needed positivity. India don’t invest in failures. That is the problem. US invest in failures. That mindset we need to change. The solar industry in India has never failed. It has grown continuously. It has grown year on year. It was slow now it is. Such a change is only speed. Right? So I think it is more sustainable business. Now when it comes to the cell manufacturing again challenge is a fund and speed. because the way the technology is changing so fast if you take your own piece of time Indian way I think you cannot right so you have to become a Chinese again speed you have to bring a speed run it fast make it more efficient and change it if you don’t change it again then you know you’ll end up in losing money the investment the fast express investment needed there I think the way because you know it’s almost 34 years I have been I done business for last four years. You have all become my guru also because I’m learning a new you know because I still remember if I could have a private company privately held company then maybe you know it is only because of the support and the positivity from your end I think. So the major clap which is you know you guys deserve than all of us definitely key the way you I mean the investors are positive the equity market is very positive and bullish about industry and and because of that all are expanding and all are like you know those who are not in a listed space they are like you know coming up very soon. So The way we have changed our approach with the mindset of this because private company professionally transparency now the all companies are working so transparently and efficiently because there is a every day there is a monitoring there is a people are watching you and question I think that is something which is very positive and which will take this industry to next We’ll begin otherwise you know it will go somewhere execution. We’ll begin the question and answer round. So we’ll take three questions from the audience for the round. Shown a tile solar roofing tile. So that was kind of game changer and uh so I was just curious as what what I mean why we are not able to make that kind of thing since you all are many of you are manufacturers. So just a curious question. See these are the innovations and uh basically India is a different country. So Indian context right that is the first thing. Second thing is India is a price. So basically these are a good product. Uh but then you know which specific countries so risk of disruption from Elon Musk is minimal I guess. Risk of disruption from that kind of No no no no I don’t see that. Thank you. Yeah. But uh I mean uh at least I have this information that one company has already started manufacturing these kind of tiles. So and they have got associated with one EPC company which has automated. It’s I mean it’s it’s a wonderful thing that they are doing. So sitting in their home they should be able to reach to your home. We’ll be able to design we’ll be able to plan the rooftop and then the tiles are available with with those tiles. The entire roof can be covered. This is a part of PIP basically building integrated photovoltaic. So as Chetanhai rightly mentioned some of the things are you know from uh proving the concept part. Yeah proof of concept. Uh your building has got let’s say three sections. One is on eastern side other is the roof and third is let’s say western portion. Right? So when sun is rising your eastern wall is generating the uh electricity. Once the sun reaches in at zenith now your eastern easter easter easter easter easter easter easter easter easter eastern wall is not generating so it’s generating only one/ird time right then your uh roof is generating for about one/ird time and then the western wall would generate for one/ird time right so actually you are getting one/ird of the total generation as compared to if it is laid on the ground so the lceco becomes three times so that’s the reason that India will finally adopt but it will takes some time. Got it. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Hello. Yeah. Hi, everyone. So, my sorry I’m here. Yeah. Uh so I have a question for the US as well. U I heard that uh US is gearing up to provide incentive uh for companies to come and uh invest into manufacturing solar modules and solar cells. uh how much do you think how far when they will be able to reach that level where it can affect us as well as China? So uh for us I think whatever announcements been made are all made mostly by the Indian companies. So yeah Raison has made it I I have made it everyone has made it. So even if it’s made in US it’s made by an Indian So again in uh again we are all waiting uh for clarifications on the incentive. Uh once the clarities are there for the incentives uh for us made mid then probably we might end up uh spending uh spending money there. In fact uh my uh take on uh manufacturing in US is uh basically you know I think the US is still not ready. uh I remember like during Obama administration there was incentive declared for five years and then the Trump came and he withdrew those investments. So those four five factories those who you know started based on those investment uh they suffered a lot. Now again there are incentives and you after November who knows like you know so basically the fundamentally business should be established not based on a incentives it should be established based on your opex operational expenditure how the opex your how competitive you are in opex US is very very big country like you know if you have a customer in east coast and then you have a factory in west coast you cannot service those customers because there is no coastal route to transport your modules right and so there is only the road and the rail. So basically you know and the cost of operation is something which is very high whereas and these announcements were made uh I think 18 months before where the prices were 32 to 35 cents per watt peak which has come down to 23 24 cents now. So viability is something which is which is very important because you are still dependent on 100% dependent on import of raw material in USA. So that means you are bringing raw material from the Asian countries to USA. The logistic cost is high. You are manufacturing at a higher cost. Your wages are high. Your transportation cost is also high. So again we need to do our mathematics and then take a appropriate decision. Thank you sir. Excuse me. Hello everyone. Uh I am Keshav and I have uh been associated with Arvin as investor and my question to all of you is uh that uh solar uh is going in a transformation phase as as an investor. I can see the biggest challenge I see is of the land bank uh when we talk about the thousand gawatt target as sir mentioned. So how are we looking as innovation in terms of vertical panels or thermo sensitive or heat sensitive panels because I have seen some companies in US uh taking up that as technological advancement and innovations. Thank you. Yeah, there are two constraints mainly. One is land part and second is the power evacuation capacity part. So when we were talking about execution uh you did like the answer you got from manufacturing part what are uh the execution constraints but if you are going to implement it on ground these are the two another big bottlenecks you rightly mentioned the land bank and the second thing is power evacuation I’ll come to land bank later on power evacuation as I mentioned center has already allocated uh 20,000 cr rupees for ISTS and high voltage DC transmission. You will be happy to know that our own state Gujarat the Jetco has announced 1 lakh K rupees investment in transmission line and substation which is much higher than 20,000 cr. So there are thousand substations which Jetco is planning in uh up to 20 uh 32. So about another 7 to 8 years. So thousand substations and Gujarat is going to be the only uh state in our country which has got COD policy connectivity on demand. They say wherever you have land you please tell me I’ll come and I’ll of take the power from there. So they will build their substation somewhere closer to your land. So this is the connectivity part. Of course it will take some time but since the growth is happening happening much faster so uh it will take some time but the things are all in pipeline. Coming to the land part yes you rightly mentioned that land is limited but whatever we are talking today the India’s potential is 746 gawatt in terms of solar and that has been calculated keeping all the waste lands and available lands which are available India is a big country right unutilized area our roofs are unutilized our our uh water bodies are unutilized our our uh universities rooftops, our hotel rooftops, our all building rooftops are unutilized. So land hopefully is not going to be a big constraint but yes government will also have to acquire land make a solar park and we’ll have to do something some facilitation in terms of improving the land. Coming to the efficiency part that or innovation part I’m sure going forward this is what I mentioned as R&D internationally things are happening on that technology will keep changing uh things will start generating from these lights also for example whatever these lights are there they are all photons right so if you have a so sensitive solar panel these photons also could start generating uh the electricity so things will come it will take some time but I’m I’m quite confident that ecosystem is quite positive and things will be taken care of. In fact, 2010 power plant 1 acre land requ 220 panels requ 2.75 acre high efficiency. So that will come down to 2 acre land per megawatt. Can you imagine seven acre to 2 acre that means I mean India is ready for thousand gawatt it is just organizing it properly channelizing the power add tracker also right with tracker sun tracking with today I have implemented tracker in my uh entire plant now and we have taken a conscious decision that all our plants now will be with tracker. So it is with single access tracker we are able to get 20% more yield. So I have not gone seasonal tracking it is only east to west so day wise tracking and we are getting 20% more that means 20% land we will be able to save just by utilizing these trackers. So technology will keep helping in that. Thank you so much sir. We’ll take the further questions later. I request Mr. Sep Kapara, Mr. Sake Agraal and Mr. Arvin Kotari to honor the guest with the momentos.