George Saunders Says Breaking These 3 Delusions Can Save You

TITLE: George Saunders Says Breaking These 3 Delusions Can Save You | The Interview CHANNEL: The Interview DATE: 2026-01-10 ---TRANSCRIPT--- [music] I’ve rarely seen people at the New York Times as excited to catch a glimpse of someone as when George Saunders entered our building before the end of last year. His 2017 novel Lincoln in the Bardau won the Booker Prize and made him a household name. But he’s been a celebrated author of short stories and a revered professor in Syracuse University’s MFA program since 1996.

As much as people love his work, they also seem to love him as a person, thanks in large part to his 2013 convocation address where he talked about the power of practicing kindness. “What I regret most in my life are failures of kindness. Those moments when another human being was right there in front of me suffering and I responded sensibly.” The speech went viral and has had real staying power. Just last fall, when Saunders was awarded a medal from the National Book Foundation, he was introduced as the ultimate teacher of kindness and craft.

Saunders, who is 67, has a new novel out this month called Vigil. It’s about a climate change denying oil tycoon on his deathbed. When we spoke, Saunders described himself as a fallible and flawed human being, one who’s just as complicated and who struggles just as mightily as his unforgettable characters.

[The full conversation follows between David Marchese and George Saunders, covering topics including: his new novel Vigil and its themes of determinism and judgment; the relationship between literature and empathy; his journey from Ayn Rand Republicanism to progressive politics; Buddhism, meditation, and awareness; death and the three delusions (permanence, self-importance, separateness); kindness vs. niceness; karma as cause and effect; the declining role of fiction in culture; and his teaching philosophy at Syracuse.]